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The Forum | Parts and Services | Unofficial Allis Store | Tractor Shows | Serial Numbers | History |
XT went to the shop |
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darrel in ND ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Hebron, ND Points: 8623 |
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I hauled my one ninety XT up to a shop that a friend of mine runs, for an engine rebuild. I bought this XT I suppose about 10 to 12 years ago. The guy I bought it from said that the engine probably didn't have a thousand hours on a rebuild, done at an Allis turned Agco dealership. I suppose I had about 4 trouble free years with it; rock solid tractor, didn't touch a drop of oil, pulled like a locomotive. Then one day it dropped all of the anti freeze into the oil. I took it to a shop in town (since closed), and the guy pulled the oil pan. Put some water back in it, and found one of the liners leaking to beat hell. Pulled the head, and the leaking liner. Not a trace of an "O" ring on it. I still haven't figured that one out, because there had to have been "O" rings on it at the time of the overhaul. Anyway, we put new "O" rings on that liner, and put it back together. Got 4 or five more years out of it, but always had a touch of gray to the oil after that, but changed the oil a little more often than normal. Eventually, anti freeze in the oil got terrible again, and we knew an overhaul was inevitable. Doing one last little chore with it and a turbo seal must have went out, and blew all of the crankcase oil out the stack. Then she sat for a couple years, until now. Tired of living without that tractor. It's one of the most purposeful ones I have. Now, this may open a can of worms, but what y'all have for tips/advice/pointers on a 2900 rebuild. I am going to leave it up to the shop owner to get the kit from where he wants to, because it is his job, and he has to stand behind it, but there can be a few variables that I can throw in. First and foremost, I am going to put some information to good use that Mack has thrown out here a few times, and get an extra "O" ring groove cut in the liners, so I can put an extra coolant "O" ring on them, since it seems that was the smoking gun from the get-go. Now a new or re-built turbo is going to be necessary, so what do you all have the best of luck with when it comes to turbos...? Or isn't there much for choices out there..? Then, injector pump and injectors.....they were working fine right up to the end. Had good power and was a good starter. Does a person leave em alone, or send em to Ed for the "once over...? I think the guy that I bought it from had said the pump and injectors were done at the time he had it rebuilt. If they ain't broke, don't fix em....? Or may as well go all the way....? Not sure which. Any other advice from lessons learned the hard way that I can benefit from...? Thanks, Darrel
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DSeries4 ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Points: 7303 |
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Definitely check and/or replace the cam bearings. If the pump and injectors were checked out recently, I would leave them. I got a new turbo from A&I for mine but haven't had the chance to try it out yet. Still putting the tractor back together. My engine and valve kit were Reliance brand.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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HD6GTOM ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 30 Nov 2009 Location: MADISON CO IA Points: 6627 |
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If Ed doesn't do the inj's and pump now its darn likely your gonna have to do it ASAP. I did not do them on my D17 several years ago and I wish I had.
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Amos ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Ontario Points: 1312 |
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I would not put it back together without at least checking the injectors. I have found with almost every engine I have been into the last 7 or 8 years that there were a minimum of 2 injectors leaking. In fact one engine had only about 1500 hours on it from when the injectors had been rebuilt...supposedly...I quit using that shop for another reason a few years ago. I would most likely get the pump rebuilt in your case as you don't know when it was done last. Unfortunately, at least here anyways, they are expensive to get rebuilt. The next ones I do will go to Ed. He helped me with information and trying to find parts for an engine I was into a few months ago. That made my mind up to send my business his way.
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old farmer ![]() Silver Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Oct 2011 Location: Sturgis, Mich Points: 341 |
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The dealer I worked for always had pump and injectors done, if customer didn’t want them done, no warranty on engine work. He got burned once and said that’s enough.
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MACK ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664 |
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Cam bearings are not real important on that engine. No oil pressure to them and rear one has no way to get oil. Others get oil that returned from rocker arms. mack
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darrel in ND ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Hebron, ND Points: 8623 |
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One thing about this tractor that is in-believable, is the batteries. When I bought it, the seller told me that one thing it may need soon, would be batteries. Never did have to change the batteries. Always started good right up until the day it died. Interstate Batteries. I am sure that after sitting for a couple years now, they'll be shot. But still, that's a long time for batteries to last. When the batteries get pulled, I am kind of anxious to see what the date is on them. Darrel
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injpumpEd ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Walnut IL Points: 4862 |
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The thought of not doing pump and injector work because "it was already done" kinda bites a lot of people these days. So, everything has been sitting around for a couple of years, with fuel that has gone sour in it. Now, we grab the pump and stick it on our fresh engine rebuild, and dang thing will not pump any fuel! Almost always find the pumping plungers will be stuck. Pump has to be torn completely down to clean everything up properly. The sad part is one comes to me in this scenario, guy has to have it right away. Well, it's not my fault it sat on a shelf for weeks while engine was being rebuilt lol! If pump and injectors were properly rebuilt as recently as you think, then it wouldn't cost as much to make everything fresh again for the fresh engine.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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shameless dude ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 Apr 2017 Location: east NE Points: 13611 |
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I always used ("used to") use Interstate batteries in our vehicles that we use year around, but have had some bad luck with a couple of new ones lately. just replaced one with a new NAPA battery as the 5 year battery in one pickup was just over a year old when it died, and the warranty isn't good after just 1 year on them. then another died that was under a year old, replacement was better on that one, but was ina vehicle that was a real pain to change out in the cold! in the past I have had better luck with 1-2 year warranted batteries than with the 5 year warranted ones.
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BKarpel ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 27 Apr 2012 Location: Collinsville IL Points: 108 |
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I would rebore the counter bores in the block and install a repair sleeve. Then push in new engine sleeves. Sounds like you block has some corrosion due to the antifreeze. A new or rebuild turbo would be fine. At least have the pump and injectors checked out. Ed does good work.
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injpumpEd ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Walnut IL Points: 4862 |
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I can also supply a genuine Garrett new or reman turbo as well.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Gary Burnett ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Virginia Points: 2928 |
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I have been buying Duracell batteries from Sam's Club 3 year 100% replacement 7 year over all guarantee.So far they have given me good service.Plus they cost less then most anywhere else. |
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d21_man ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 26 Jul 2015 Location: Rossville, IN Points: 31 |
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Feel your pain. Bought a 200 a few years ago and it had roughly 400hrs. The guy told me the fuel pump had been rebuilt and they went through the radiator as well. Everything looked clean in the blow-by tube and oil cap, but I point blank asked him if it ever had antifreeze getting in the oil...he said no. They had quite a few allis tractors around there so I figured I could trust them. I probably only have 50 hours on the tractor from when I bought it, used it to bush hog and run a wood splitter. The first time I used it after about an hour of mowing noticed it wanting to load up a bit then it would smooth out and run fine. Pulled all the injectors and had then checked/rebuilt. Still did the same thing. Noticed it starting to use antifreeze and found it in the bottom of the oil pan. After looking the block over real good I even think it may have been welded on behind the oil cooler elbow. Guess you just can't trust guys to tell you the truth anymore.
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Joe(TX) ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Weatherford. TX Points: 1682 |
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I would check for cracks in the block between the cylinder bores. I had that problem on my 190XT when I got it. I found the problem on the second tear down. Water in the oil will make the bearings look like you beat them with a hammer.
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1970 190XT, 1973 200, 1962 D-19 Diesel, 1979 7010, 1957 WD45, 1950 WD, 1961 D17, Speed Patrol, D14, All crop 66 big bin, 180 diesel, 1970 170 diesel, FP80 forklift. Gleaner A
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allisrutledge ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 30 Mar 2010 Location: SurgoinsvilleTN Points: 1353 |
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Darrel, let us know what the mechanic finds on the other 5 sleeves,o rings or not. Scott
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Allis Chalmers still exist in my mind and barns
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tadams(OH) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 Sep 2009 Location: Jeromesville, O Points: 10017 |
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I wouldn't take a chance on the pump & injectors, I would send them to Ed to be safe after spending the money to rebuild everything else.
tom
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shameless dude ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 Apr 2017 Location: east NE Points: 13611 |
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thanks Gary, i'll check them out!
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KJCHRIS ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 21 Dec 2015 Location: WC Iowa Points: 882 |
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IF you do not trust the shop you took it to do it correctly, why did you take it to them???
You know that coolant has gotten to oil pan, let them assess how it got there. Your fuel injection system has not been checked for over 5 years so the pump and injectors need to be checked and re-conditioned as needed. Cylinder head, block, crankshaft, and other internal components will need to be checked during tear down. If you brought it to me and started asking this many questions I'd tell you to take the S O B home and charge you for the aggravation. Yes, I know I'm a Butthole to deal with, but have had very few repairs comeback to be redone.. Have a good day, KJCHRIS.
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AC 200, CAH, AC185D bareback, AC 180D bareback, D17 III, WF. D17 Blackbar grill, NF. D15 SFW. Case 1175 CAH, Bobcat 543B,
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darrel in ND ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Hebron, ND Points: 8623 |
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The guy at this shop happens to be a very good friend of mine, and I fully trust him with this engine rebuild. The first item I discussed, and it wasn't even really a question, was in reference to the extra O ring groove being cut into the sleeve. Me and this shop owner discussed doing this procedure on 301's long before my engine ever even lunched out. So I hardly think that undermined his competence. Question about the pump and injectors; well that was a question that I pretty well knew the answer to before I asked. Probably shouldn't have brought that one up. About the turbo, is it so out of line to ask folks who are out in the field using the tractors if they've had good luck or bad luck with any particular brand/rebuilt turbo. I mean, if the guy rebuilding my engine said to me that he's using this one particular turbo, because he knows that's the best way to go, that's what would be going on it. But there has been discussion on this board before on the good, bad, and the ugly on turbos, and once again, I don't think that harvesting a little information on turbos is undermining his competence. I used to work with the guy that now owns the shop doing my rebuild, and have a good working relationship with him. I told him, that it's his shop; his baby. He does work on every brand of tractor out there, though, and as we all know each and every different brand does have a few unique characteristics. It is possible that someone on the forum here may know something from experience, that maybe he has never come across. Not saying that he'd do it wrong, but if one little tidbit of info would improve the rebuild, I think I can suggest it without upsetting the apple cart. I am not going up to his shop and looking over his shoulder every second that he's going to be working on it. So far, what I've told him is that I want the extra O ring groove cut in the sleeve. Since we had that discussion before, that wasn't an issue. Then I told him, that if it was alright with him, I'd like to send the pump and injectors to Ed. He was very happy about that, because he's had piss poor luck with a local pump shop (which I already knew), and wants to make sure that job gets done right. Outside of that, I told him, call me when it's done, but if there are any issues that come up that you need to discuss with me, or want my input on, call me. I am in no way, shape, or form shoving anything down his throat. Darrel |
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darrel in ND ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Hebron, ND Points: 8623 |
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KJCHRIS, The more I think about your response, the more f***ing pissed off I'm getting. You say, "I am asking ALL these questions." I asked very few questions, and mostly just stated some information about the nature of the beast. Any time there is a deal between a customer and a service provider, a little rational discussion between the two is going to take place, and that doesn't mean that the customer is doubting the service provider's ability. If I call a plumber to my house to fix a leaky faucet, and I ask him what's the difference in price between fixing the old faucet, and just putting in a new faucet, is he supposed to get pissed, charge me for the service call, and leave without fixing anything? If a carpenter comes to put in a new window, and I tell him I want oak trim, is he supposed to pack up and leave because he thought it should have mahogany?
I wish now that I could just wipe this whole thread away, because evidently it gave you an impression of me that I don't like, and I don't think has any merit. I don't believe that this shop owner has ever wished that he could lock the door when he sees me coming. You talk about me being "supposed to let him figure out where the water is leaking from, and address it himself." Even though I did bring up the water in the oil issue on here, and I did tell him that it was getting water in the oil, he was the one that told ME that he would look everything over and make sure that he knows that he is at the root of that problem. And as far as the extra O ring groove in the sleeve; no he wouldn't have to do that, but he is open minded enough to take a piece of advice from an expert. (Not me in this case, but Mack, here on the forum, who has had more Allis experience than my friend will ever have. I was just the middle man, relaying the information). As far as the pump and injectors go, I know for a fact, that when my man got to them, he'd have called me anyway, and asked me what I wanted to do with them. If he didn't like my answer, he would then give me his recommendation, we would have some rational discussion, and do what's best. If I insisted on something that he is not comfortable with, then maybe things would head south in a hurry. But I wouldn't do that. About the only discussion there, was where to take them to, and he is fine with Ed, because of some of the luck he had locally with pump shops. Same with the turbo. I have been on the other side of the fence, as well, having worked in the shop for 14 years at an implement dealership. Granted, I never did an engine overhaul on a piece of farm equipment, but I damn sure did a lot of work on equipment otherwise, especially Gleaner combines. Now if a customer brought a combine in, and wanted it "gone through", the shop foreman would send the customer back to talk to me about a game plan, and sometimes we could spend a couple hours discussing what to fix and what not to fix. Some things that would come into play, would be things such as "how long do you plan on keeping this machine?" "Do you want to use all genuine Gleaner parts, and have us stand behind them, or use cheap aftermarket parts and be on your own?" I'd have to say that perhaps a few customers who barely knew what end of the combine the header went on, were aggravating when they were in every day questioning me, but I was always willing to rationally discuss any repair with a customer that had a good understanding of the piece of equipment I was working on. I like to think that I am the latter of the two. Darrel |
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11544 |
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Not that there's anything wrong wit the rest of this post, but this here is EXACTLY what I was thinking!
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Allis dave ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 10 May 2012 Location: Northern IN Points: 2900 |
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Don't worry Darrel, I didn't think you were asking much. More just sharing your pain as many people on here do. Some people take things the wrong way.
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skateboarder68 ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 29 Jan 2011 Location: Keota, IA Points: 369 |
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Don't get too worked up Darrell, he said he's a butthole. The 1st step to not being a di#khead is admitting he is one! 😂
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Orange & Silver still earnin their keep on the farm: R62, Series IV D17 nf, 185, 6080, 6080 fwa, 220, 1968 D21, 7045, DT240.
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wekracer ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Oct 2009 Location: Tebbetts, MO Points: 1587 |
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I would have asked those same questions if I was in your position Darrell. It takes good communication to get the project done right. Don’t worry about it.
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MACK ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664 |
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Hang in there Darrell, you did the right things. MACK
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chaskaduo ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 26 Nov 2016 Location: Twin Cities Points: 5203 |
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"If you brought it to me and started asking this many questions I'd tell you to take the S O B home and charge you for the aggravation."
I can't stand rejection, and really hate paying to aggravate someone. Thanks for letting me know Darrell. Elliott
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1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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HudCo ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Jan 2013 Location: Plymouth Utah Points: 3487 |
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you never know what questions really unvailed what realley happened and where to look first even if it was several years ago , if there is a problem with a paticular engine sleave o rings i probley would not know that unless i had sean a service bulitan on it, so if it was brought to my attention i would want to research it
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AllisFreak MN ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Dec 2009 Location: Minnesota Points: 1537 |
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If my wife charged me every time I aggravated her I'd be flat broke.
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'49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2
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desertjoe ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13527 |
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WOW,,Mr. Darrel,,,I'm kinda getting a feelin that you might be close to getting pizzed,,,, ![]() ![]() When anybody stands to spend as much hard earned money such as you fixin to on this overhaul,,,you oughta be able to ask all the questions you NEED to get answered,,!! 'sides thet guy prolly ain't got time to work on AC's,,,him be workin on them J Deeres,,,, ![]() |
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farmboy520 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 22 Jun 2016 Location: Beason, IL Points: 553 |
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How's the tractor coming along Darrel?
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