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WD45 smoke at startup |
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JimD
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Mounds, OK Points: 2100 |
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And that motor is DESIGNED for them.
The AC is NOT.
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Owner of OKtractor.com PM for an instant response on parts. Open M-F 9-6 Central.
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Steve in NJ
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Andover, NJ Points: 11744 |
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I'm reading all these posts and I'm wit' Don. Take the Tractor out and run the piss o' of it. Work it hard and seat the rings. That's probably all thats wrong wit' it. If it runs nice and only does it on the first start, I would put it to work for a few hours and then see what it does. Might be fine...
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Don(MO)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Bates City MO. Points: 6862 |
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Put it on a dyno warm her up good first them load her up good and hard, watch the blow-by, if it heavy the rings are not seated if the blow by is good them look at the head.
If it turns out that the guides are letting oil by before you just replace parts find the trouble, yes the guides can be to-low or valve stems/guides have wear. If the shop didn't replace all the parts in your head that you where billed for I'd look for a better shop. Find the problem first, then open it back up and fix what's wrong. |
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3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep.
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79fordblake
Orange Level Joined: 01 Jul 2010 Location: West Kentucky Points: 827 |
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I figure rings are already seated. No blowby at all with oil fill cap off and cap on valve cover off while running. Heck I don't know. I'm about burned out on the project now.
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Eric B
Orange Level Joined: 09 Feb 2012 Location: British Columbi Points: 922 |
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Very frustrating when you have spent all that money... It does not seem to be a common problem on any of these old engines. With the high flow higher oil pressure you might have an oil bath like second to none under that valve cover?? Would be interesting to hear what you find once you start it with the valve cover off. I once had a 149 cu. in. A-C with exactly the same start up blue puff problem. The previous owner had over hauled the block but not the head. What solved my problem 100% was that I cleaned off the top of all the valves and valve springs thoroughly with ether and rags...then smeared (not excessive) Ultra Grey Silicone to seal from any oil going down the stems and voila... never ever had any blue puffs again. A year ago I had the head off my WD and I did the same thing just to be sure, but it did not previously have that problem anyway.
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Currently- WD,WC,3WF's,2 D14's B. Previously- I 600,TL745,200,FL9,FR12,H3,816 LBH. Earth has no sorrow that Heaven cannot heal!
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Allis dave
Orange Level Joined: 10 May 2012 Location: Northern IN Points: 2900 |
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I don't see how the full flow could be getting THAT much oil to the head. There's only a 3/16 line feeding the head and that line is split so some of the oil goes to the governor. There should be more than enough space around the pushrods to drain the top end.
Also with that baffle installed, most of the oil I deflected down to the head AND the head is sloped down to the pushrods. The only oil getting to the valves has to run down the arm, then down the valve guide. The top of the valve guides is almost level with the valve cover surface. You'd have to have the whole head almost overflowing with oil to pool and run down the guides. I don't see that happening with half of a 3/16 oil line. Did the machine shop ask for valves when they worked on the head? My shop had me give them a valve to make sure they got all the tolerances correct. You said you were pulling plugs. Can you narrow it down to a certain cylinder? I wouldn't really know how though. It's pretty hard to see in there without a borescope or something Edited by Allis dave - 06 Feb 2017 at 3:06pm |
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WF owner
Orange Level Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4596 |
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Could it be a crack in the head that expands when it warms up and doesn't leak as much warm?
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79fordblake
Orange Level Joined: 01 Jul 2010 Location: West Kentucky Points: 827 |
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The head was checked for cracks but I don't guess that really means anything. Machine shop ordered all the parts. The old valves were still in the head when I took it to them. I have all the old valves, springs, seats, guides in a box. I contacted machine shop. They told me to let them know what I find when I remove valve cover. I'll crank it and look down valve cover to see how much oil is moving around. After that I'll take valve cover off and look at everything. Then I'll crank it with cover off. More than likely I won't have anymore info until Saturday. I don't feel like doing much after I get off work during the week. Thanks for all the help guys. I'm trying not to lose my mind over here lol. This thing has been a project for almost 10 months now messing with it every weekend.
Edited by 79fordblake - 06 Feb 2017 at 4:52pm |
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Dan73
Orange Level Joined: 04 Jun 2015 Location: United States Points: 6054 |
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All I can say is I feel your pain. My d15 has been like that. It has fought me tooth and nail and now the loader joystick valve has something wrong because it will randomly dump all by itself and I just rebuilt the curl cylinders because the seals where shot. Hang in there you will get it eventually. That is what i keep telling myself.
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Bill_MN
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Sioux Falls, SD Points: 1463 |
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I completely rebuilt my WD engine just the way you did, spent about $3500. No rocker arm baffle, no valve seals, everything tight and square, full flow conversion, and I've never so much as seen a single puff of smoke since it was rebuilt. Something was done wrong, either an incorrect part or clearance. Sometimes you have to build and check them yourself twice to catch the little things, and it could be a very little thing causing it. Keep at it.
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1951 WD #78283, 1918 Case 28x50 Thresher #76738, Case Centennial B 2x16 Plow
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79fordblake
Orange Level Joined: 01 Jul 2010 Location: West Kentucky Points: 827 |
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I just went out and pulled the plugs. All dry, no oily residue. Those D17 pistons are thirsty. I checked my gas level it used quite a bit. I had it on the disk yesterday for about 2hrs. 3rd gear slinging dirt. Varying throttle back and forth and at times wide open. I checked oil no loss that I can detect.
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Dan73
Orange Level Joined: 04 Jun 2015 Location: United States Points: 6054 |
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Yup about 3.5 gallons an hour and haying mine uses every bit of that. But I haven't seen a tractor with the same hp rating that can do as much work either.
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WF owner
Orange Level Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4596 |
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Is there a chance you are getting some oil out of the air filter at start-up, that is causing the smoke?
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LeonR2013
Orange Level Joined: 01 Jan 2013 Location: Fulton, Mo Points: 3500 |
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There's a good thought.
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Dan73
Orange Level Joined: 04 Jun 2015 Location: United States Points: 6054 |
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I would think finding oil on the pistions after it sat with the motor not running would rule out the air cleaner. Beside the one time I over filled one of them enough to suck oil back to the motor it didn't want to start very well not enough air would be my guess I just remember my d17 didn't start well and it took me a while to realize I over filled the oil bath air cleaner that was years ago.
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LeonR2013
Orange Level Joined: 01 Jan 2013 Location: Fulton, Mo Points: 3500 |
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OK.
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Allis dave
Orange Level Joined: 10 May 2012 Location: Northern IN Points: 2900 |
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The service manual has the specs of how far the guides should be pressed in. I'd take docs advice and check that out. Mine are just a little under the valve cover surface. I don't know if that's to spec. That's just where the shop put them. and I haven't ran it yet.
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79fordblake
Orange Level Joined: 01 Jul 2010 Location: West Kentucky Points: 827 |
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Just for the heck of it I'll check the air cleaner oil. I took it all apart and cleaned and refilled cup before I started it. I'll also take a look at valve guides when I get valve cover off.
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Lonn
Orange Level Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Назарово,Russia Points: 29781 |
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Sometimes new aftermarket valve guides aren't knurled. These engines need knurled guides or they will suck oil in.
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Wink I am a Russian Bot |
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79fordblake
Orange Level Joined: 01 Jul 2010 Location: West Kentucky Points: 827 |
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They had knurled guides even when new?
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Butch(OH)
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Lucerne Ohio Points: 3834 |
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I same problem on our WD. Was more of a pride thing than a real problem but I dug back into it and found that the after market guides had a huge chamfer on the I.D. that I had paid little attention to upon assembly. I made up a piloted spot face tool and turned the top of the guides flat then chamferred only enough to remove the burr, been running good w/no smoke at start up for 10 years now. Its an easy check to see if oil down the guides is the problem. Remove the manifold after it has set a day and look at the valve stems. Dark stain and some dampness is OK, but if any of the stems are wet with oil thats your problem,
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20185 |
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A-C intake guides always had a spirol pattern inside them. They also had a tee-pee shaped top (not flat top) for oil to run off the guide. Also a correct pressed in height.
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11544 |
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I'd be calling a patent lawyer if I was you. You say you keep burning oil and the level never goes down. That's awesome! Perpetual energy!!
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Lonn
Orange Level Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Назарово,Russia Points: 29781 |
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-- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... -
Wink I am a Russian Bot |
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ocharry
Silver Level Joined: 26 Jun 2016 Location: missouri Points: 288 |
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those plugs look a little white to me,,,,should be a light tan color,,,,i would want that girl a little richer if she were mine
my grand pappy always told me he liked to see a little oil consumption like what you have because it told him the top end was getting a little oil and it helped with longer life but i also think a brand new motor shouldn't smoke anytime,,,,me thinks there is a valve guide clearance problem,,,,,enough to to worry about ,,,, maybe not,,,but i have to agree it would have me pissed,,especially on a brand new high dollar motor my .02 ocharry
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79fordblake
Orange Level Joined: 01 Jul 2010 Location: West Kentucky Points: 827 |
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It's only showing oil smoke on start up. And no like I said the oil level has not went down yet. I doubt burning a little oil at start up is going to lower the level any that is noticeable for awhile. It's still on the full mark right now.
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79fordblake
Orange Level Joined: 01 Jul 2010 Location: West Kentucky Points: 827 |
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DRAllis would you happen to have a picture?
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skipwelte
Orange Level Joined: 29 Oct 2009 Location: Anthon, Iowa Points: 723 |
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Id say the guides probably are not quite correct for this application. Now its a matter of do you want to tough it out and fix it or live with it as its not gonna be a huge isssue, but will always be there. You could put some valve stems seals on and improve it alot, or replace the guides with different ones-problem is getting the correct ones. Back in the day when we worked on a lot of these engines we always put valve stems seals on the intake valves. We had a special tool to cut the guide to accept positive valve stem seals-worked real good and the reason for doing so was to eliminated blue smoke at start up. Good luck Blake.
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79fordblake
Orange Level Joined: 01 Jul 2010 Location: West Kentucky Points: 827 |
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Lol I think you know the answer to that. Noway I'm going to deal with this. I'll find NOS valves and guides or have these aftermarket guides modified to work correctly.
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79fordblake
Orange Level Joined: 01 Jul 2010 Location: West Kentucky Points: 827 |
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Cranked the tractor this morning. Blue smoke out the exhaust. Used it 3hrs mowing today. Ran great and not one puff of blue smoke the whole time. Turned it off when I got done and let it set about 15 minutes. Cranked it up....blue smoke out the exhaust.....
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