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Dave(inMA) 
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Location: Grafton, MA
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 Posted: 23 Apr 2019 at 3:04pm |
Some great pictures, Chris. Together with Don(MO)'s video, they are a great road map for installing those seals.
Dave
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WC, CA, D14, WD45
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Sugarmaker
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Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
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Posted: 23 Apr 2019 at 4:45pm |
Dave, Thanks! Not only is Dons video good. But talking with him is even better. Its amazing the number of little things that could be missed on one of these projects. I made a list of the next moves to install the crank and worked on that this afternoon.
-coated the rear seals with motor oil. -applied chalk to the timing marks to add visibility for alignment -applied assembly lube to the bearings and the thrust on the crank. -installed crankshaft, gently.
- positioned "F" gaskets around rear upper seal (gray color) These go in dry.
-installed bearing caps in correct orientation.
- tightened bearing retainer bolts to 40, then 60 then 85 ft lbs.
Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 24 Apr 2019 at 7:13pm |
Folks, No WD engine action today. Went with a friend to help him pick up several items. One is a antique cross cut saw, a Galloway, powered by a hit and miss type engine. The second is a Witte hit and miss type engine on a cart. Both engines are free. and should run with a little love!
This was a good diversion from my tractors:
Also viewed this really nice 1969 Camaro, even as a die hard Ford guy, this is a nice car. Didn't realize how low and small the drivers area is.
Also a picture of the cart that will go with Jim's doodle tug. Heavy duty, and will make a nice display with the model A tug!
AC stuff: Have to borrow a piston ring expander. I think I am ready to start getting the pistons and rods assembled and into the block in the near future. Regards, Chris
Edited by Sugarmaker - 24 Apr 2019 at 7:16pm
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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exSW
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Posted: 24 Apr 2019 at 7:52pm |
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For the Show grounds? I'd love to see that crosscut work.
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Allis dave
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Posted: 25 Apr 2019 at 7:14am |
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Good pictures. It's odd for my to imagine using those engines for work. I always like to look at them at our local show. How times have changed!
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 25 Apr 2019 at 8:04am |
exSW, Hoping that Jim gets these units to the local shows. That is his plan. I believe he will leave them in their work clothes. We currently have a working crosscut saw at the Steam show. It was set up and working two years ago. Not sure about last season.
Dave, Yea that was a different world when these small hp engines were the power kings. I am sure if you were doing hand work and then could afford one of these power units, you pretty much had it made in the shade!:) Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 25 Apr 2019 at 8:20pm |
Folks, The continued blog. Kind of like a soap opera! Spent part of the day on the Allis engine assembly. I always get nervous on these things as I may forget something important and ruin something!
Ring kit:
I tried rings from 1 kit in one sleeve. They had about .017 to .019 end gap. Good enough. Dang fuzzy pictures I think the lens was oily!
Marked front on all the tops of the pistons in marker as an additional visiual guide. Read the service manual several times on the installation of the wrist pin and rod offset. Did #1 and 3. Then changed the set up and did #2 and 4. Torqued the rod clamp bolt to 20 ft lbs. Set this assembly in soft jaws and stabilized the piston to install the rings. Thanks to Bill at Sandy Lake for this suggestion and the sequence of ring installation. BTW the small dots on the two center rings goes in the up position. Watched the gap locations and staggered those.
Last piston assembly going in. Had to go gently with this old school ring compressor.
I used some 3/8 hose as journal protectors and it kept the bolts in place too.
Turned the head over to take a look at the valve work. I am not a good judge but looks Ok to me. I see that the rockers are all resurfaced and rounded too. I took the rocker arm components off the shaft and poked out the old end corks, which were pretty well junk.
I did clean up these old pistons that came out of the tractor last fall. They dont look too bad. (My opinion) Will put them away for a while. What would the compression ratio be for these in the WD45? They seem to be the same height as the new ones just they dont have the dish. Never know they might go in a tractor again someday?:)
Question; Do folks normally rotate these assemblies any at this point? Any special things to lube them up prior to the head going on? All the bearings and journals and wrist pins got assembly lube applied. The pistons were submerged in oil after the rings were in place. Sleeves were oiled prior to installing pistons. I was thinking of installing the head next.
Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Allis dave
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Posted: 26 Apr 2019 at 7:52am |
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For your old pistons. It's not so much the height of the piston, but the distance from the pin to the top of the piston. The same piston was used for different ratio's, but the pin is located higher or lower. If you know how they compare to your new pistons you could figure up their compression ratio. Did you do a compression check before you tore down? That would give you some hints too.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 26 Apr 2019 at 9:47am |
Dave, Folks, Thanks. No I did not do a compression test prior to tear down. And I did not check the wrist pin location on the new vs the old flat tops. Just had set them side by side and they were the same height. Cant remember any great visual difference in pin location, but wasn't thinking of that at the time. I could have checked that a hour ago. I took all the pistons back out this morning and readjusted the rings to assure they were mis-aligned properly. Good practice for me, since I am a novice at this!:) Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Allis dave
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Posted: 26 Apr 2019 at 1:32pm |
Found it. Here's an old post a made about this. It has some measurements of several pistons. Make sure you read to the end. Some of my first posts had incorrect information posted by me. I later learned a little more and corrected it.
Edited by Allis dave - 26 Apr 2019 at 1:39pm
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 26 Apr 2019 at 3:25pm |
Dave, Thanks! I looked a little for the higher compression pistons but several suppliers I spoke with could not get them at this time. So the old 7.25 pistons will have to do for this overhaul. Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 27 Apr 2019 at 1:02pm |
Folks, Getting ready to put the head on this WD45 engine. Haven't even taken the gasket from the kit yet. So thought I would stop and take a breath and check what others are doing. The service manuals just dont have the details that my brain needs and the materials and methods have changed several times over years. Based on casual reading about this in the past there seems to be several methods, which doesn't surprise me. -The gasket looks to be heavy black material with metal sandwiched in between with metal rings for sealing. I have copper spray ready for application. Gasket brand is Riley. Interesting that the number on the pack 3162 matches the base number of a Victor gasket mentioned in another thread. As I get it out, I see there are NO metal rings around the water holes. One of the waterholes towards the front is smaller than the others? Some pictures for discussion:
small water hole in lower left of picture.
Some background info: - This WD 45 block was not machined on the upper face. Was deemd Ok by machine shop. - All head bolt threads in the block were chased prior to going to the machine shop and checked with a bolt today for smooth bolt engagement. - 3 studs 3/8 dia installed. - 2 studs 1/2 inch dia for the water outlet neck installed. - head ready to go on. - Head bolts cleaned and threads wire brushed and light assembly lube coated.
My proposed method for this head gasket installation: 1. Hang and spray both sides of the provided gasket with copper coat. (Not sure of tack time or multiple coats required?) 2. Install the gasket on the block with the side marked "UP" up! 3. set the head on the gasket/ block. 3. put the head bolts in place. ( yes it had bolts and that what are going back in.) 4. Then start to torque the head bolts per the service manual sequence.
I guess my questions are: Do I need to add and additional sealant around the water holes? And is that small water hole OK
Suggestions/ comments always welcome. Thanks for checking in on me.
I did check one of the rod bearing clearances and it was .003 inch when plasigaged.
Regards, Chris
Edited by Sugarmaker - 27 Apr 2019 at 7:59pm
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 28 Apr 2019 at 10:12am |
Folks, OK, Crickets!:) In doing research, I see that the holes in the head gaskets are different sizes to restrict the coolant flow. So that is answered. On gasket coating, I am going to use the copper spray on both sides of the gasket, allow to tack up, another dusting on both sides then install the gasket and head. Guess I need to find the water outlet and rear water cover plate. Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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MDWilliams338
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Posted: 28 Apr 2019 at 11:23am |
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Chris ,sorry man I didn’t even catch this is what you were saying in our messages 😬.I think you’re pretty much on the right track here.You know I just had to pull the head off my D17 for a couple of stuck valves and I’ve always found the process of gasket coating ,torquing the head down a lot less annoying than actually tearing it down and removing and reinstalling the head itself....mind you the block deck and head deck are straight which if not can lead to a whole other mess.I’ve always used Indian Head gasket sealer (brush on sealer) or sealer from Summit Racing.A good coat on both sides ,around water jackets and all then I let it tack up for about 5-8 min and set it on,run the bolts down to a slight snug then go in sequence.The fun thing about these older smaller,low compression,low HP engines is as long as the decks on both the block and heads are true that these early air pumps are not quite so hateful and finicky as a 1000hp stroker engine.The engines I ran in my mustangs in the NMRA circuit (Yates heads) the heads had to be torqued completely down ,engine spun with no fuel to build mock compression for several cycles,all head bolts loosened and then torqued back down again....fun times.
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‘42B,’45B,’48C,’51CA,’52CA,’69170,1935WC,1936WC,WD,WD Highcrop,WD45,WF,D10/14/15/17/19
It isn’t how you die.It’s what you live for.-Daniel Boone
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 28 Apr 2019 at 6:38pm |
Mike, Folks Thanks! Right or wrong the head is on. I did use the copper spray on both sides. got tacky and installed.
Torqued head bolts in sequence 40, 60, then 90 ft lbs. 25 ft lbs on the 3/8 ones.
Paint stripper and wire brushed the block, and head and wiped down with acetone.
Did some figuring and marking for the speedi sleeve position to be under the new crank front seal. Applied some epoxy and tapped on the sleeve. 1 1/2 inch PVC is a good tool to drive these on. (Thanks Joe for the speedi sleeve!) Had to pull the lip off the sleeve at the back.
Front cover set in place temp. The adjuster screw for the cam was very worn. I had to grind the burr off, just to get it out. Cleaned up the end of the cam where that was some metal smeared. I think this is going to be OK.
Regards, Chris
Edited by Sugarmaker - 28 Apr 2019 at 8:58pm
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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MDWilliams338
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Posted: 28 Apr 2019 at 8:19pm |
That looks good Chris...fresh engines give me smiles 
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‘42B,’45B,’48C,’51CA,’52CA,’69170,1935WC,1936WC,WD,WD Highcrop,WD45,WF,D10/14/15/17/19
It isn’t how you die.It’s what you live for.-Daniel Boone
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Allis dave
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Posted: 29 Apr 2019 at 9:02am |
I wasn't on the computer all weekend either. Looks good. I know Doc's posted to almost always sue some of that copper sealer. Helps fill in the imperfections if the block wasn't decked.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 29 Apr 2019 at 8:16pm |
Folks, I took the WD45 ocker arm assembly apart to replace the corks. Found some wear on the support areas. I took apart two other WD rocker assemblies and think I found a rod with less wear. Of course it was on the worst looking old assembly. Not even sure where it came from? I will need to use the WD type oil line feeding the center of the rod, with the better rod. Some assembly required, and your mileage may vary! Regards, Chris
Edited by Sugarmaker - 30 Apr 2019 at 2:42pm
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 30 Apr 2019 at 2:58pm |
Folks, I am going to drag you along till we cant stand it any longer!:) The three rocker arm rods, the one on the right has the least wear. But its a WD style, which has the larger oil entry hole on the manifold side of the rod at the 4:00 position (looking from engine front). The WD45 style has a small hole at 12:00 for the oil feed tube. The WD uses a spacer and a short spring on each side of the spacer.
So after some discussions I choose to use the less worn rod but needed to make modifications to allow it to get oil like the 45. I did not want to modify the splash shield. That way I could use the oil shield with no mods. (Other than it had small cracks and required moved to the weld shop and back quickly)
The rods: Yea new modified wine cork in each end. Slowed me down just a little consuming the entire bottle so that I could use the cork:
I rotated the center WD sleeve/ ring to have the threaded hole vertical. Inserted brass fitting to contact the rod and cut it off. This secures the ring and plugs (covers) the WD oil hole. It protrudes about 3/16 above the ring. Drilled through the remains of the brass fitting as a guide and through the rocker arm shaft. Assembled the rockers. WD45 oil tube fits nice and snug, just like it was made for it. This should also throw off the next person, that opens this engine in 50 years, for a loop too!:) You wont find that in your service manual!:)
Repaired oil shield:
Inserted flywheel bolts in to back of crank (removed spark plugs) and rotated the crank one rev just to make sure things are free. Regards, Chris
Edited by Sugarmaker - 30 Apr 2019 at 3:28pm
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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chaskaduo
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Posted: 30 Apr 2019 at 4:41pm |
Consuming that wine for the cork did not mess up your engineering abilities one bit. Looks like OEM to me.
Edited by chaskaduo - 30 Apr 2019 at 4:42pm
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1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 30 Apr 2019 at 9:41pm |
chas, Folks, Thanks for checking on me. I spent most of the day playing with the engine of this old Allis. I did get the timing cover with its gasket in place. (WD45 governor spring installed) Used the PVC with multiple wraps of electrical tape as the centering device.
Also spun the engine and adjusted the valves to .012 inches cold with each cylinder up on compression stroke. I see in the book that this is the hot dimension. Maybe I missed it somewhere as to the cold dimension for the valve dimension?
That's it I am done for the night! Tomorrow I am going to our local paint shop to see if I can find some good primer to get some painting started before rust takes over. Hope things are good in Orange land! Regards, Chris
Edited by Sugarmaker - 30 Apr 2019 at 9:44pm
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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exSW
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Posted: 30 Apr 2019 at 9:55pm |
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I'd find that cold number if it were me.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 30 Apr 2019 at 10:16pm |
exSw, Yep found the valve lash/clearance dimension at .015 inches cold, was from older post where Dr. Allis was quoted. So I get to practice on that again tomorrow! Good experience, and fits my typical work mode. Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Jgranat
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Posted: 01 May 2019 at 4:45am |
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You have blown past me Chris, I am working on the roundabout they are building in Meadville and not spending much time in the shop at the moment. Glad the sleeve did the trick. I will have to try and get back on my project on rain days, the chickens go out side this week, all feathered out and eating like pigs!!
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Allis dave
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Posted: 01 May 2019 at 6:29am |
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Here's a new forum tagline "Dr. Allis - The other service manual"
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ac hunter
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Posted: 01 May 2019 at 6:49am |
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Chris, you have gone to a great deal of effort just to get all the pictures and information on here let alone the work of overhauling the entire tractor. I have learned a lot from you and all the other contributors. Thanks a lot. Hope you keep it up through the finish on the 45 and on all your other projects.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 01 May 2019 at 7:02am |
 Jgranat wrote:
You have blown past me Chris, I am working on the roundabout they are building in Meadville and not spending much time in the shop at the moment. Glad the sleeve did the trick. I will have to try and get back on my project on rain days, the chickens go out side this week, all feathered out and eating like pigs!!
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Joe, Based on where my crankshaft had the wear from the old seal.,the speedi sleeve had to have the lip removed. If I remember yours looked to be about the same place as mine is. I had previously cut through the lip as per the instructions because I knew it was going to have to come off. I used a dremel tool on the lip for the cut. But man that lip was still a challenge to get off. You know those were about the best instructions (in the speedi-sleeve box), that I have seen in 30 years!
I knew those peeps would be about feathered. Time flies! I dont have to go to a job so I can play most of the day! Some days I get more done than others! You will get there on your WD45 engine build.
Dave, It is really nice to have folks with this much knowledge available to help us that don't!
I reset the valve lash to .015 inches. Oil pump, tubes, and pressure relief valve, next to install. Weather is just starting to get nice, lawns to mow too. I think I will set up a temp paint booth out side in a 10 x 10 awning. I have to start getting some orange on parts too! Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 01 May 2019 at 8:51pm |
Folks, Went to the paint shop and picked up some urethane primer. Good for bare metal and hope it will also work over the rustoleum rattle can painted parts too. I think they have me talked into trying their Sherwin Wiliams industrial top coat. I did get the oil tube and the oil pump installed:
Front crank shaft seal in place. Used electrical tape over the tapered hole in the crank.
Filled the back side of the front seal with grease to hold the spring. and some sealant on the O.D. Tapped into place with the PVC tube tool.
Regards, Chris
Edited by Sugarmaker - 02 May 2019 at 7:44am
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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MDWilliams338
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Posted: 01 May 2019 at 9:11pm |
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This thing will be tearing it up by July 4 for sure!!! I just replied to ya about the paint in my thread and I just now see you may be using what I used on dads B and WD,😁 Best I can remember I liked the SW...it shot well and later on good.
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‘42B,’45B,’48C,’51CA,’52CA,’69170,1935WC,1936WC,WD,WD Highcrop,WD45,WF,D10/14/15/17/19
It isn’t how you die.It’s what you live for.-Daniel Boone
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 02 May 2019 at 7:51am |
ac hunter wrote:
Chris, you have gone to a great deal of effort just to get all the pictures and information on here let alone the work of overhauling the entire tractor. I have learned a lot from you and all the other contributors. Thanks a lot. Hope you keep it up through the finish on the 45 and on all your other projects. |
ac, Thanks for the kind words! The documentation helps me stay focused on a project like this. So easy to get side tracked this time of the year. My picture quality leaves a lot to be desired. The old flip phone has its limits. Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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