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Live Hydrolics for a C

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AJ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Live Hydrolics for a C
    Posted: 10 Feb 2012 at 6:31pm
I am planning to put a loader on my allis c. I am wanting to figure out how to get live hydrolics on my tractor to run the loader. I don't want to cut my tractor's grill up or any other sheet metal. So i am asking for ideas/advice. Pictures would me great if you have them.
Thanks Aj
Can't fix stupid
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allismanamp View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allismanamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2012 at 6:52pm
i don't know how to do the picture thing yet but i seen a very nice ca Allis a older gentleman had done up power steering on and the way he did it was clean and you would swear was factory don't ask what type of pump it was but he added it right in to the steering column  and it was hid down inside the tool box looked really nice i got pictures of it on my digital camera i thought it was a combine steeringSmile pump not sure though sorry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2012 at 8:01pm
saw this once-- not mine
 
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ted in NE-OH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2012 at 8:11pm
How about a PTO hydrolic pump.
CA, WD, C, 3 Bs, 2 Gs, WC, I-400, 914
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote R.W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2012 at 8:23pm
Originally posted by Ted in NE-OH Ted in NE-OH wrote:

How about a PTO hydraulics pump.
But he wants "live" hydraulics.
In Search Of: 1958 Allis Chalmers D17 Diesel serial #9643D
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CTuckerNWIL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2012 at 8:25pm
Originally posted by Ted in NE-OH Ted in NE-OH wrote:

How about a PTO hydrolic pump.

The C already has hydraulics that work with the PTO but they aren't live.
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Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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1953CA View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1953CA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2012 at 8:25pm
You can do Live hydraulics off of the PTO...AJ I might have just the thing for you...
1945 AllisCletrac / 1948 "B" / 1953 "CA" / 1955 "WD-45" / 1963 "D-15 Series II"           



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CTuckerNWIL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2012 at 8:27pm
If you had a CA pedestal, you could mount a pump up front, drive it from the front of the crankshaft and not have to cut any sheet metal. I don't know if there is a way to anchor the pump on a C pedestal.
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Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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CTuckerNWIL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2012 at 9:44pm
Originally posted by 1953CA 1953CA wrote:

You can do Live hydraulics off of the PTO...AJ I might have just the thing for you...
No you can't. The PTO stops when you clutch the C so it's not live.
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Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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AJ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2012 at 10:02pm
Yes that is the issue. I don't want to run it off the pto, I want to leave that open. I do like how that CA has the set up for the live hydrolics. Does anyone know what is required to do that?
Can't fix stupid
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveC(NS) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 7:08am
Originally posted by 1953CA 1953CA wrote:

You can do Live hydraulics off of the PTO...AJ I might have just the thing for you...
So, is this a secret you'll only share with AJ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 8:14am
Originally posted by AJ AJ wrote:

Yes that is the issue. I don't want to run it off the pto, I want to leave that open. I do like how that CA has the set up for the live hydrolics. Does anyone know what is required to do that?
Buy the rear end from a CA and bolt your engine and torque tube to it. Or maybe just buy the final drives from a CA and attach them so you have the hand clutch. Then you won't have the 4 speeds and the better hydraulic pump.


Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 11 Feb 2012 at 8:16am
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Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Gary View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 8:37am
I think the idea of 'live hydraulics' is so you can push the foot clutch and change gears while still having operating hydraulics.
So a CA  axle clutch wouldn't give you 'live hydraulics'.
 
Gary
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 8:48am
Originally posted by Gary Gary wrote:

I think the idea of 'live hydraulics' is so you can push the foot clutch and change gears while still having operating hydraulics.
So a CA  axle clutch wouldn't give you 'live hydraulics'.
 
Gary
Well that's how the CA got it, buy using the hand clutch, the PTO is live, just not independent. It wouldn't be very handy for loader use. Might be a little better if you moved the hand clutch to the left side.
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Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 10:26am
Charlie
Does thst mean D-14 and D-15 have 'live hydraulics' then because they have the Power Director / Hand Clutch.
 
Don't think so.
 
Hand clutch disengages power to the wheels .
 
Gary
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 10:37am
It is a lot of work but I saw pictures of a setup that had a belly mount hydraulic pump run with a roller chain where the drive gear was mounted to the engine side of the flywheel.  Openings have to be cut on both sides of the bell housing to run the chain thru along with a pump mounting plate attached to the under side of the bell housing. Torque tube in this case. It was plumbed to the PTO housing using the same oil as the original hydraulic pump that could still be used.  
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Eldon (WA) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eldon (WA) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 11:01am
Front pump is mounted to the front axle bracket for the WF pivot....may be a problem with a nf tractor.  This setup is sweet, 3pt on the rear with 2 way cylinders.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1953CA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 11:17am
Eldon's setup simular to my B, minus mine is tucked in the front grill.  Which cutting up the grill maybe a down side, but if it's done clean, I think is the easiest way to get LIVE hydraulics.  Just mount to the radiator support and run a shaft through the hand crank hole and your done.
1945 AllisCletrac / 1948 "B" / 1953 "CA" / 1955 "WD-45" / 1963 "D-15 Series II"           



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dustinmo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 11:46am
Find a behlen (I think that is the spelling) pump that fits between the mag/dist and the block, have one on my wc forklift and a 45 with loader and saw another one time that was used to power the orig power steering setup on a 45, dont have a pic but they are sweet and small and no cutting of any kind, then all you need then is a valve and a tank
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 3:57pm
Originally posted by Gary Gary wrote:

Charlie
Does thst mean D-14 and D-15 have 'live hydraulics' then because they have the Power Director / Hand Clutch.
 
Don't think so.
 
Hand clutch disengages power to the wheels .
 
Gary
YES, that is live hydraulics if you can stop the forward motion of the tractor and keep the pump running. The WD,45,CA and all D series have live hydraulics as long as the hand clutch or power director work. 

Live Hydraulics Definition   Topic List   < Prev Topic  |  Next Topic >
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[http://www.antiquefarming.com/hydraulics.html] "The term "live" hydraulics, the
word "live" meant that each of the hydraulic
systems operated independently of the drive train and could be employed even
while the tractor was not moving. In the case of power
take-off, this meant that implements could be powered independently of the drive
train. The importance of the live feature was
experienced firsthand while brush cutting. The inertia created by rotary
implement made traveling ten foot distance with the clutch
disengaged and the brakes on a common occurrence on small tractors like the Ford
9N."
 
 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 4:24pm
Charlie
I guess it comes down to ones 'interpretation' of what 'live hydraulics' truly is.
 
My opinion is a tractor has 'live hydraulics' only if the pump is still operating  with the foot clutch depressed.
 
My D-12 Series III has both 'live hydraulics' and 'live PTO'.
 
Both the hydraulics and the PTO still operate even with the foot clutch depressed.
 
What do you other knowledgable Allis guys think ?
 
Gary
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 4:50pm
I agree w Gary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eldon (WA) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 5:39pm
The WD was sold as having "live" pto....being able to stop motion without stopping the pto, in this case by using the auxillary hand clutch. The D10/12 Series III had an "independent" and "live" pto....."live" because you could stop motion without stopping the pto and "Independent" because it wasn't dependent on the main clutch being engaged for it to operate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dusty MI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 6:54pm
What I liked about the type such as the WD and others used is that say you were running a PTO combine and something happened that you needed to stop every thing, combine and ground travel, one motion, the foot clutch, did the job.

Dusty
917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 8:10pm
Steve, what kind of pump is that on that CA? That would be ideal for what I'm wanting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eldon (WA) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 8:11pm
Originally posted by Dusty MI Dusty MI wrote:

What I liked about the type such as the WD and others used is that say you were running a PTO combine and something happened that you needed to stop every thing, combine and ground travel, one motion, the foot clutch, did the job.

Dusty
That's exactly why I like my 175D's for tilling and brushhogging...some people think that the hand clutch/power director isn't user friendly like the new "independent" tractors, but I disagree!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 11:55pm
AJ, i dont know what kind of hydrualic pump it had. Took the photo at a show. I had layed one out once and problem is the belt tighen and alignment. This one had a double pulley on the alternator. Fan belt drives alternator, and alternator drives pump with a seperate belt.. solved a lot of problems i thought.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2012 at 3:51pm
Tucker did they make these for the allis C? If so, how go on the tractor and how hard would it be to find one to fit an allis C?
Can't fix stupid
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2012 at 4:14pm
Originally posted by AJ AJ wrote:

Tucker did they make these for the allis C? If so, how go on the tractor and how hard would it be to find one to fit an allis C?

There is one for sale at that link. You take the magneto off, put the pump on and bolt the magneto to the pump. Plumb it up using an add on tank or the differential housing as a reservoir and add the valve you want with a return line.
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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