Live Hydrolics for a C
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=45340
Printed Date: 29 Aug 2025 at 5:45pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Live Hydrolics for a C
Posted By: AJ
Subject: Live Hydrolics for a C
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2012 at 6:31pm
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I am planning to put a loader on my allis c. I am wanting to figure out how to get live hydrolics on my tractor to run the loader. I don't want to cut my tractor's grill up or any other sheet metal. So i am asking for ideas/advice. Pictures would me great if you have them. Thanks Aj ------------- Can't fix stupid |
Replies:
Posted By: allismanamp
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2012 at 6:52pm
i don't know how to do the picture thing yet but i seen a very nice ca Allis a older gentleman had done up power steering on and the way he did it was clean and you would swear was factory don't ask what type of pump it was but he added it right in to the steering column and it was hid down inside the tool box looked really nice i got pictures of it on my digital camera i thought it was a combine steering pump not sure though sorry
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Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2012 at 8:01pm
saw this once-- not mine
 ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Ted in NE-OH
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2012 at 8:11pm
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How about a PTO hydrolic pump. ------------- CA, WD, C, 3 Bs, 2 Gs, WC, I-400, 914 |
Posted By: R.W
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2012 at 8:23pm
But he wants "live" hydraulics. ------------- In Search Of: 1958 Allis Chalmers D17 Diesel serial #9643D |
Ted in NE-OH wrote:Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2012 at 8:25pm
The C already has hydraulics that work with the PTO but they aren't live. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: 1953CA
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2012 at 8:25pm
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You can do Live hydraulics off of the PTO...AJ I might have just the thing for you... ------------- 1945 AllisCletrac / 1948 "B" / 1953 "CA" / 1955 "WD-45" / 1963 "D-15 Series II" "No Air Support without Ground Support" |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2012 at 8:27pm
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If you had a CA pedestal, you could mount a pump up front, drive it from the front of the crankshaft and not have to cut any sheet metal. I don't know if there is a way to anchor the pump on a C pedestal.
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2012 at 9:44pm
No you can't. The PTO stops when you clutch the C so it's not live. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: AJ
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2012 at 10:02pm
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Yes that is the issue. I don't want to run it off the pto, I want to leave that open. I do like how that CA has the set up for the live hydrolics. Does anyone know what is required to do that? ------------- Can't fix stupid |
Posted By: SteveC(NS)
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 7:08am
So, is this a secret you'll only share with AJ?
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Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 8:14am
Buy the rear end from a CA and bolt your engine and torque tube to it. Or maybe just buy the final drives from a CA and attach them so you have the hand clutch. Then you won't have the 4 speeds and the better hydraulic pump.
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Gary
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 8:37am
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I think the idea of 'live hydraulics' is so you can push the foot clutch and change gears while still having operating hydraulics. So a CA axle clutch wouldn't give you 'live hydraulics'. Gary
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Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 8:48am
Well that's how the CA got it, buy using the hand clutch, the PTO is live, just not independent. It wouldn't be very handy for loader use. Might be a little better if you moved the hand clutch to the left side. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Gary
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 10:26am
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Charlie Does thst mean D-14 and D-15 have 'live hydraulics' then because they have the Power Director / Hand Clutch. Don't think so. Hand clutch disengages power to the wheels . Gary
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Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 10:37am
| It is a lot of work but I saw pictures of a setup that had a belly mount hydraulic pump run with a roller chain where the drive gear was mounted to the engine side of the flywheel. Openings have to be cut on both sides of the bell housing to run the chain thru along with a pump mounting plate attached to the under side of the bell housing. Torque tube in this case. It was plumbed to the PTO housing using the same oil as the original hydraulic pump that could still be used. |
Posted By: Eldon (WA)
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 11:01am
Front pump is mounted to the front axle bracket for the WF pivot....may be a problem with a nf tractor. This setup is sweet, 3pt on the rear with 2 way cylinders. ------------- ALLIS EXPRESS! This year: |
Posted By: 1953CA
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 11:17am
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Eldon's setup simular to my B, minus mine is tucked in the front grill. Which cutting up the grill maybe a down side, but if it's done clean, I think is the easiest way to get LIVE hydraulics. Just mount to the radiator support and run a shaft through the hand crank hole and your done. ------------- 1945 AllisCletrac / 1948 "B" / 1953 "CA" / 1955 "WD-45" / 1963 "D-15 Series II" "No Air Support without Ground Support" |
Posted By: dustinmo
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 11:46am
| Find a behlen (I think that is the spelling) pump that fits between the mag/dist and the block, have one on my wc forklift and a 45 with loader and saw another one time that was used to power the orig power steering setup on a 45, dont have a pic but they are sweet and small and no cutting of any kind, then all you need then is a valve and a tank |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 3:57pm
YES, that is live hydraulics if you can stop the forward motion of the tractor and keep the pump running. The WD,45,CA and all D series have live hydraulics as long as the hand clutch or power director work.
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Gary
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 4:24pm
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Charlie I guess it comes down to ones 'interpretation' of what 'live hydraulics' truly is. My opinion is a tractor has 'live hydraulics' only if the pump is still operating with the foot clutch depressed. My D-12 Series III has both 'live hydraulics' and 'live PTO'. Both the hydraulics and the PTO still operate even with the foot clutch depressed. What do you other knowledgable Allis guys think ? Gary
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Posted By: scott
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 4:50pm
| I agree w Gary. |
Posted By: Eldon (WA)
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 5:39pm
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The WD was sold as having "live" pto....being able to stop motion without stopping the pto, in this case by using the auxillary hand clutch. The D10/12 Series III had an "independent" and "live" pto....."live" because you could stop motion without stopping the pto and "Independent" because it wasn't dependent on the main clutch being engaged for it to operate. ------------- ALLIS EXPRESS! This year: |
Posted By: Dusty MI
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 6:54pm
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What I liked about the type such as the WD and others used is that say you were running a PTO combine and something happened that you needed to stop every thing, combine and ground travel, one motion, the foot clutch, did the job. Dusty ------------- 917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express" |
Posted By: AJ
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 8:10pm
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Steve, what kind of pump is that on that CA? That would be ideal for what I'm wanting. ------------- Can't fix stupid |
Posted By: Eldon (WA)
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 8:11pm
That's exactly why I like my 175D's for tilling and brushhogging...some people think that the hand clutch/power director isn't user friendly like the new "independent" tractors, but I disagree! ------------- ALLIS EXPRESS! This year: |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 11:55pm
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AJ, i dont know what kind of hydrualic pump it had. Took the photo at a show. I had layed one out once and problem is the belt tighen and alignment. This one had a double pulley on the alternator. Fan belt drives alternator, and alternator drives pump with a seperate belt.. solved a lot of problems i thought. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2012 at 12:09pm
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Here is the easiest way to do it. http://www.ebay.com/itm/FARMALL-IH-B-C-H-M-behlen-live-pump-/160730149191?_trksid=p4340.m1374&_trkparms=algo%3DPI.WATCH%26its%3DC%252BS%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D15%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6281340847193363410" rel="nofollow - http://www.ebay.com/itm/FARMALL-IH-B-C-H-M-behlen-live-pump-/160730149191?_trksid=p4340.m1374&_trkparms=algo%3DPI.WATCH%26its%3DC%252BS%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D15%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6281340847193363410
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: AJ
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2012 at 3:51pm
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Tucker did they make these for the allis C? If so, how go on the tractor and how hard would it be to find one to fit an allis C? ------------- Can't fix stupid |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2012 at 4:14pm
There is one for sale at that link. You take the magneto off, put the pump on and bolt the magneto to the pump. Plumb it up using an add on tank or the differential housing as a reservoir and add the valve you want with a return line. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: AJ
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2012 at 6:44am
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Does anyone know how common these pumps are? The one on ebay is an International I think, will that fit on an allis?.......I'm guessing these are in high demand and very few of them made beings this one has almost 30 bids and is near $300 and still has time. I can't say i have ever seen one of these on an allis b or c but I am young and haven't seen everything. Anyone know if allis made these specificly and what models were they found on? Which models are compatible with the b/c? Thanks Aj. ------------- Can't fix stupid |
Posted By: Dakota Dave
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2012 at 6:59am
| they were not that common. you will need one of of a Farmall. it will bolt right on in place of your mag then the mag bolt to it. they usually go for better than $300 dollars. look for one on a H farmall they were most common thier. you'll need to paint it orange yourself since Allis didn't put them on thier tractors. |
Posted By: Kip-Utah
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2012 at 7:01am
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AJ, the pump that works on an IH mag/dist drive will also work on an A-C. So if this one does not get too spendy for you, it's what you're looking for. Kip ------------- HANSEN'S OLD ORANGE IRON. Showing, Pulling, & Going!! |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2012 at 7:10am
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I have seen some pumps for M's that have a gear drive on the front. I wonder how hard it would be to put the slotted mag drive on it and rework the front flange? The gear drive ones seem to sell for much less than the "slot" drive.
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: AJ
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2012 at 7:15am
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I have an alternator on my c (12v). Will i have to put the mag back one to run one of these?(meaning will i have to go back to 6v)
------------- Can't fix stupid |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2012 at 7:18am
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The voltage and alternator have nothing to do with the hydraulic pump. If you have a distributor conversion on it, remove that, bolt the pump on and add you distributor to the back side of the pump. It's that simple. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: AJ
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2012 at 7:37am
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Oh ok. I was thinking of the wrong side.
------------- Can't fix stupid |
Posted By: dustinmo
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2012 at 8:06am
| this is the pump I was talking about, I didnt know they were that pricey I may be persuaded to sell a few it they usually end up north of 300, Dustin |
Posted By: AJ
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2012 at 2:35pm
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I would be content just running one off the side with a pully style set up if I can figure out what pump to get that would work.
------------- Can't fix stupid |
Posted By: jccleav
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2012 at 6:40pm
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Might look at different pumps for truck plows. The one in the picture kind of looks like one. ------------- The joy is in the journey. AC "B" and "WD" and "C" |