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Anyone close to a wind farm?

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Brad MI View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brad MI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Anyone close to a wind farm?
    Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 7:08pm
What has been your experience? 
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Alvin NE WI View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alvin NE WI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 7:13pm
It is pretty windy here right now and also for the last several days.
Alvin NE WI
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FloydKS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FloydKS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 7:24pm
?Experience as far as noise, disturbing cattle... ...?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kip in cny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 8:00pm
most farmers in way noth NY that have windmills on their land gave up farming from the money they get from the windmills on their land. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote norm[ind] Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 8:06pm
  BENTON CO. IND HAS HUNDRES OF THEM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RickUP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 8:07pm
Keep them far from your house!!!!!!!!!!!! 2-5 miles !!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 8:08pm
I saw a TV program about it last year, seems cattle get used to the whoosh,whoosh fairly fast, farmers get used to the steady income faster !!
I'd certanly read and re-read any contract, especially about access to the towers, use of land,etc. before signing anything !
 
The noise isn't a big concern. Heck, I helped a friend move from the city awhile ago, could believe all the city traffic noise !! Being in the country 25 years...ears got used to 'peace and quiet'.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlenninPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 8:30pm
bout' 6 miles away. Big, ungainly looking things on the ridgetops, daughter's current beau works there, tough on birds and bats....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 8:30pm
I can see them, I don't hear them, even when closer.

Gerald J.
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CTuckerNWIL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 8:46pm
I see one every time I go towards Erie,Il. Most times it isn't turning so I doubt there are many complaints about it.
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Brad MI View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brad MI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 8:46pm
Well, I'm the Planning Commission Chair in our township and Duke Energy is proposing a wind farm here. We are in a farm/resort area on the coast of Lake Michigan. I've spent hundreds of hours looking at information about these projects and their affects on the people and area around them. I was hoping to hear some real life experiences from some great down to earth folks like we have on here. Sounds like my job could get interesting! Oh well, @ $25.00/month compensation I guess it's about time I earn my keep. lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 427435 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 8:57pm
We have a number here in SE Minnesota and more are trying to be built.  Lot's of controversy.  Besides the revenue to the land owners, they also provide property tax revenue to the local governments. 

The biggest issue is getting agreement on setbacks from houses.  The opponents want at least a 1/2 mile while the proponents want a lot less.

Here's a link to some opponents with contact info that you may want to use.

http://www.goodhuewindtruth.com/Gallery.html
Mark

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Claus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 9:08pm
Wind power is very clean but no matter how we make power somebody is going to complain about it, probably as they are using it.
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scott View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 9:33pm

If wind power is subsidized and the subsidy was "pulled", like they are doing in Spain, could the mills operate and make money? If not, what then?

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GBACBFan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GBACBFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 9:43pm
The additional cost would be submitted with justification by the utilities in their rate case to the Public Service Commission. The Public Service Commission would make the decision if all or part of the rate case was justified, and the justified portion would be passed on to the consumer to pay as part of their utility bill. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 10:05pm
But, Scott has a very good question. These things do not have a real long service life, what happens if they are abandoned because the return on investment isn't there? I'm not arguing against them, I'm just saying somebody in Brads shoes needs to consider that.
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GBACBFan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GBACBFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 10:16pm
The contractual provisions of the termination vary, and are written into the individual contracts with the landowner. Typically the utility has the responsibility to demo and restore when the useful life is ended for any reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 10:33pm
Originally posted by GBACBFan GBACBFan wrote:

The contractual provisions of the termination vary, and are written into the individual contracts with the landowner. Typically the utility has the responsibility to demo and restore when the useful life is ended for any reason.
Ya, but nothing is standard, so one would want to be sure that is provided for. In addition, in may not be unreasonable to require an escrow account or bond to cover that.
What is happening around here with the gas companies is they are buying up land leases, with three to five payments over the life of the lease, making the first payment, coming on the property, drilling test wells, and then if dry, abandoning the wells and not making the remaining payments.
Again, I'm not against the gas companies either, but it is things that a public official such as Brad may wish to account for
I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 427435 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 10:33pm
I haven't been following the ones around here that close, but the one in the county north of me isn't being built by the power utility.  It's being built by a private, out of state company who will then sell power to the utility.  I don't know what would happen if the company building the project went belly-up when the windmills started to wear out.  Like a lot of companies, they will likely have few assets outside of the windmills themselves.

Edited by 427435 - 24 Nov 2010 at 10:35pm
Mark

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnCO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 10:48pm
John Deere Energy just ordered a bunch of units from Vestis, a Danish company with three plants here in Colorado.  I believe they are going to Norm's state, Indiana.  Supposed to be put up next year.  Vestis will handle maintenance for a few years.  Wonder if they will paint the towers green and the blades yellow?  LOL 
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GBACBFan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GBACBFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 11:30pm
You're mixing apples and oranges, Lou. I was answering the question on wind power contracts with land owners. You referred to answering Scott's question and Brad's concern on wind power. I believe my answers to be accurate on that subject. We have a few wind farms, and I've been involved in some of those contracts through the developers.
 
There was no question here on gas wells. Gas wells are an entirely different animal, and are not analogous with wind farms. You don't need to address the price of rice in Shanghai, China if you're writing a contract to buy hay from Omaha, Nebraska. The four corners of the contract for wind power need to be reviewed on the merits of the goods and services they are intended to address.


Edited by GBACBFan - 24 Nov 2010 at 11:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave in il Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 12:06am
We're about 8 miles from one, no noise other than a very slight "whoosh" when standing at the base of one. But they are eye sores at best, and the red lights at nights are really annoying. They're set so they all go off and on at the same time, but I've been told they're even more annoying when they blink independently. We have two companies putting them up and a third is applying for permits.
 
I'm township supervisor and they are moving into our township next year. We have a small but vocal group against them, but most people seem to be for them or don't care one way or the other. Our road commisioner and others in the county hired a lawyer to represent them in the negotiations with the windmill companies. This attorney has experience in these negotiaions and says they will promise everything but will try to follow through on as little as possible during and after construction.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GBACBFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 12:26am
It is a good idea to involve an attorney, Dave, to make sure the contract balances the risk. It's a bit of a scare tactic on his part when he says they promise everything but will try to follow through on as little as possible during and after construction. You need to remember he's only making money when the meter's running. That said, once you get a contract in place, the developer, or utility if you're dealing direct, are bound by the terms of the agreement, and will find it difficult not to follow through on anything within the four corners of the agreement.
 
Ask your attorney to show you examples of agreements from other areas, good and bad, and build your contract accordingly. If he's an expert in that field, he'll have samples. You will also need to manage your attorney, and not let him manage you, or you will have a large bill to pay from his law firm at the end. Have him give you an estimate of time and cost to help you put your contract in place, and manage to that budget. If he's unwilling to do that, you may well have the wrong attorney. 


Edited by GBACBFan - 25 Nov 2010 at 12:31am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Larry(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 8:03am
I guess my compant.. AEP has some involvement in a big farm in texas.  I think its Mesa wind farm.  The thing is, its a classic case of Not in My Back Yard, but we want cheap electric.  I would rather have a wind farm than a nuclear or coal plant there. I might be a little biased because I work for a electric utility.  I have seen video of them with the "swoosh" noises and I guess I would get used to it the way I got used to the RR tracks in the town I moved to after getting married.  Here is a link of AEP's latest wind discussions and a little info on them.
 
As I side note in Ohio, the PUCO has told AEP that they need to have a source of "green" energy by a certain date, so they have to do what is told
 
hope this helps, JMHO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian S(NY) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 8:21am
My brothers farm is surrounded by them. No noticable problems. dont scare the cows.
 
Lou is right about concerns of WHAT HAPPENS IN 25  YEARS when they become obsolete?
 
 
I live in cherry valley new york. Every one was in favor untill some money got tossed around and several folks got new jobs etc. ... then the project was killed. They passed laws keeping out windmills but never thought about gas wells. Now they are drilling and fracking gas wells all over town and have no regulations in place.Id rather have windmills.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob-Maine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 8:34am
Brad, Lou and others, This is very controversial here in Maine. We have quite a few and many more being permitted. I am the vice chair of our town's Planning Board and have done a little inquiring just in case someone decides to build a wind farm here. We are a very small town and could use the tax revenue but also need to consider homeowners who might experience some reported downsides to a windmill near a home.
One thing I would consider and maybe push for would be some form of bonding, paid for by the developer, which would pay for dismantling a windfarm if the owner went belly up. Having a contract which says the owner will dismantle isn't much good if that owner goes bankrupt. Bonding by a stable firm might address that. Just my $0.02 worth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 427435 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 9:29am
Keep in mind that wind power is not cheap power.  The utilities around here are using the Minnesota requirement that they must use X% wind power in their grids to raise rates.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dusty MI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 9:47am
Brad, Bob said what I was going to say. 

I was on out township board and planning commission, we allowed the county to do the zoning  but worked with them.

We are not into wind farms, but on cell towers the county has it set up so that if a tower is   abandoned, defined as not used for at least 1 year it must come down.

To insure that there are funds to do that there must be a letter of credit before the tower can go up.

I'm very glad to see many of the guys on here on township boards. It's very educational.


Dusty
 


Edited by Dusty MI - 25 Nov 2010 at 9:48am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 9:47am
the problem is they are not economical. Federal Govt  gives third party supplier money to build the inefficient unit, the turns around and forces the local power company to buy the power at high price and turn around and peddle it as "green" They force a given percent of the electric companys power to be "green". Power company must then go to the regulatory commision and ask for rate increase. If it is yes... YOU PAY.  If it is no, the company gets screwed and dones not have resources to maintain the system and you have future blakcouts or down time.  Somewhere down the road when the govt stops subsidizing, eithe the system goes belly up, or local regulatory group is forcing individuals to pay  2 or 3 x as much for your power to pay for the inefficient things... and their life span is about 8-10 years---- MAYBE!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 10:12am
Originally posted by GBACBFan GBACBFan wrote:

You're mixing apples and oranges, Lou. I was answering the question on wind power contracts with land owners. You referred to answering Scott's question and Brad's concern on wind power. I believe my answers to be accurate on that subject. We have a few wind farms, and I've been involved in some of those contracts through the developers.
 
There was no question here on gas wells. Gas wells are an entirely different animal, and are not analogous with wind farms. You don't need to address the price of rice in Shanghai, China if you're writing a contract to buy hay from Omaha, Nebraska. The four corners of the contract for wind power need to be reviewed on the merits of the goods and services they are intended to address.
Easy there big fellow, you're getting defensive for no reason. Not apples and oranges, and I wasn't implying you were incorrect. I was only comparing gas wells to the wind towers only to illustrate the need for viewing the energy developers with a healthy suspicion, make sure every aspect of the venture is accounted for in the contract, because there is no standard practice, common, maybe, but not standard.
And,  since Brad is, to some degree, representing the land owners and was soliciting advice, and since I have a friend who is in Brads shoes who stepped into the mess with the natural gas developers (after the fact) I thought it was worth mentioning. The last thing a property owner would want would be a non-producing expensive tower of junk stuck on their property that would cost more to remove than they ever made in royalties. And, the nature of the business is such that this very scenario could happen if provisions are not made for it up front, the money needs to be available to dismantle and remove, even if the developer goes belly up.
Sorry, didn't mean to step on your toes there my friend
I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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