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Top Fuel Dragster ??

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SteveM C/IL View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 Jun 2022 at 1:22pm
Ain't much left of spark plugs after a run but then again not much needed with the self combusting thing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 2022 at 9:27pm
Originally posted by Pat the Plumber CIL Pat the Plumber CIL wrote:

... He claims it's not very explosive or volatile. He says the challenge is getting enough fuel into cylinder before it ignites.


Nitromethane fuel is CH3NO2.  It carries sufficient oxygen to combust at Air/Fuel ratios of UNDER 2:1, where  gasoline needs to be at 13.8:1... that means substantially more atmospheric air must be pulled in, in order to attain combustion.

Because of it's included oxidizer, Nitromethane is VERY EASILY ignited. In principle, building an engine for nitromethane is really all about how much chamber volume is left at TDC, and how to get the chamber packed full of LIQUID, while at the same time putting in JUST ENOUGH AIRSPACE to prevent the cylinder from becoming hydraulically obstructed by the liquid component... as overfilling will cause a rising piston to STOP as soon as the cylinder volume doesn't allow.

I suspect that Tim's reference is to Methanol... it is EXTREMELY difficult to get it to ignite... totally different scenario.  Nitromethanol, poured into a closed cylinder and compressed with a ramrod, will autoignite just as Herr Diesel postulated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pat the Plumber CIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 2022 at 7:31am
Tim Wilkerson is a local Top fuel funny car driver who still has his shop in Springfield. I was cleaning drains at his shop a few years ago . I asked him how sketchy it is to make a run . He said running down the track is hairy at best , but he said the real scary part is trying to slow down and stop . Those tires are stretched like rubber bands and then you try and wrangle them in as you slow down . He also talked about the fuel. He claims it's not very explosive or volatile. He says the challenge is getting enough fuel into cylinder before it ignites.
You only need to know 3 things to be a plumber;Crap rolls down hill,Hot is on the left and Don't bite your fingernails

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2022 at 1:33am
Originally posted by FREEDGUY FREEDGUY wrote:

Your "dirt car" isn't even in the same hemisphere as a top fuel dragster is it Confused ??


A dirt-track car makes more revolutions in one lap, than the top fueler makes in it's entire run.

Remember, the top fuel is running at somewhere around 8500rpm for 3.3 seconds.  That seems like a lot, but do some math... 8500/60*3.3 ...
  That's about 470 revolutions.

A dirt-track heat race has an engine spinning between 4000-6500rpm for 12 laps on a quarter-mile circle...  You're looking at about four minutes... that's 20,000 revolutions.

Now get in a car, take a 15 minute drive to the grocery store... at 2400rpm... that's 36000 revolutions.

They're all totally different applications.  The top fuel engine will NOT survive in a dirt-track race, and it certainly WILL NOT make it to the grocery store... the design for each is optimized for the circumstance to which is is intended.

As others noted, top fuel dragsters have basically no cooling system.  The fuel used has SOME impact on the reduction of cooling requirement, but moreso, the amount of time that the engine actually RUNS, is very short.  The dragster engine is a LOW DUTY CYCLE engine.  The dirt track racer, the grocery-getter, the over-the-road truck, and the field tractor, are

  Fuel and oil are frequently located in FRONT of the engine, as the accelleration forces approach 5G.  Oil and fueling are considered a 'total loss' system, reservoir fed, not withdrawn from the pan.  Why?  Several reasons- first, because oil coming OUT of reciprocating assembly is aereated INSTANTLY upon departure, and as a result, cannot easily be reconsolidated to be pumped forward to the oil tank without considerable input of extra horsepower from scavenging pumps, and because pumping oil OUT of the pan, and pushing it back forward into the tank, adds weight, costs wheel horsepower, and provides no benefit to the needs of the race.  Starting with a full supply tank, by the time the engine has completed it's run, the supply tank is almost empty, the used oil tank towards the rear, is about full.  The volume of oil used, is a function of run time and engine speed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2022 at 11:31pm
Top fuel cars have been running 1000 ft for several years (10?). Quarter mile speeds were getting too fast for shut down. They have regained the speed in 1000ft they used to run in a 1/4 but have a longer shut down distance. It's hairy scary....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2022 at 8:38pm
Originally posted by Jordan(OH) Jordan(OH) wrote:

Freebie only races to beat the train

And getting to the beer store!Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jordan(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2022 at 5:41pm
Freebie only races to beat the train
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2022 at 5:12pm
Evidently Never Raced Freegas.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FREEDGUY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2022 at 5:12pm
Originally posted by HudCo HudCo wrote:

being dry sump pans they my have a large oil tank to pump cooler oil
YES, I just confirmed with my friend this evening, the buggy they ran held 30 quarts in a reservoir and pumped to the engine Big smile 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FREEDGUY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2022 at 5:08pm
Originally posted by Thad in AR. Thad in AR. wrote:

I used to change the oil on my dirt cars every other week. 7quarts.
I also changed back and right front tires every week or every other at the least.
I bought Hoosier 970’s by the pickup load.
Imagine all the tires used up in a NASCAR weekend.
I think I read once that cup averages 400 Goodyears a week???
 
Your "dirt car" isn't even in the same hemisphere as a top fuel dragster is it Confused ??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2022 at 12:55pm
Are they using G seats or suits now? If not must be dang close to that requirement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2022 at 12:54pm
Sub 4’s can be done, and what? 310-325??? I don’t follow it either.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote plummerscarin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2022 at 11:11am
I think Eddie Hill went 3.99 several years ago
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Les Kerf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2022 at 8:19am
Back in the late 1970's I was in the Marines and was stationed near the old Orange County International Raceway (now defunct) in southern California. My buddies and I regularly attended the drag races there and at that time it was easy to get into the pits to watch the race crews.

There were mostly Keith Black  and Donovan hemi engines being used at that time; those engines have the entire bottom end designed as one piece, what would be the oil pan has the main bearing caps built into it as a large, sturdy framework.

When they drained the oil out it was a nasty, yellowish, stinky mess from the nitro-methane contamination after just one pass down the strip.

Using air tools they could pull the "oil pan" in less than a minute; back then they didn't always pull the pistons and heads every run but I believe they may do that nowadays, I haven't really kept up with the craft in recent years.

ET's were in the low 6's then with the fastest cars breaking into the high 5's. I understand they are quite a bit quicker than that now.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2022 at 9:18am
harry ass is what you get when you SIT in your Blue Oval, and SET at a RR crossings for 25 minutes , drinking beer in the hot sun.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2022 at 8:22am
That's what I thought too.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fixer1958 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2022 at 8:14am
I think it was supposed to be 'harryass' whatever that means in the context of the comment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2022 at 8:08am
What is harrassy????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2022 at 6:19pm
Shoot, Mr Blobby drinks that much beer, in the same amount of time!Beer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FREEDGUY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2022 at 5:48pm
Originally posted by Wayne180d Wayne180d wrote:

I thought I read somewhere those top fuel dragsters burn like 12 to 15 gallons of fuel in their 1/4-mile run.
Damn DUDE Cry, you're going to get FLAMED for that harrassy  without "due-diligence" on google EmbarrassedLOL !!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wayne180d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2022 at 10:52am
I thought I read somewhere those top fuel dragsters burn like 12 to 15 gallons of fuel in their 1/4-mile run.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2022 at 5:19am
Originally posted by LouSWPA LouSWPA wrote:

Originally posted by Thad in AR. Thad in AR. wrote:

I used to change the oil on my dirt cars every other week. 7quarts.
I also changed back and right front tires every week or every other at the least.
I bought Hoosier 970’s by the pickup load.
Imagine all the tires used up in a NASCAR weekend.
I think I read once that cup averages 400 Goodyears a week???
I would have guessed more than that, but that's what it would have been, a guess.
that would be 9.3 tires per car, or 2.3 changes per car per race. I know they don't always take four, and there are always some who drop our early, but still seems low to me. but I was wrong once before......well, i thought I was wrong, turns out I was mistaken!



Lou I just did a quick search.
Cup is allowed 15 sets of tires per team for the Daytona 500.
That would be 2400 for that weekend just the cup teams.👀
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2022 at 5:14am
Originally posted by LouSWPA LouSWPA wrote:

Originally posted by Thad in AR. Thad in AR. wrote:

I used to change the oil on my dirt cars every other week. 7quarts.
I also changed back and right front tires every week or every other at the least.
I bought Hoosier 970’s by the pickup load.
Imagine all the tires used up in a NASCAR weekend.
I think I read once that cup averages 400 Goodyears a week???
I would have guessed more than that, but that's what it would have been, a guess.
that would be 9.3 tires per car, or 2.3 changes per car per race. I know they don't always take four, and there are always some who drop our early, but still seems low to me. but I was wrong once before......well, i thought I was wrong, turns out I was mistaken!



I believe you’d be correct. There are 160 on the ground at any given time not counting backup cars.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 10:20pm
Originally posted by Thad in AR. Thad in AR. wrote:

I used to change the oil on my dirt cars every other week. 7quarts.
I also changed back and right front tires every week or every other at the least.
I bought Hoosier 970’s by the pickup load.
Imagine all the tires used up in a NASCAR weekend.
I think I read once that cup averages 400 Goodyears a week???
I would have guessed more than that, but that's what it would have been, a guess.
that would be 9.3 tires per car, or 2.3 changes per car per race. I know they don't always take four, and there are always some who drop our early, but still seems low to me. but I was wrong once before......well, i thought I was wrong, turns out I was mistaken!


Edited by LouSWPA - 21 Jun 2022 at 10:25pm
I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FREEDGUY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 6:05pm
Originally posted by DMiller DMiller wrote:

Was seeing if Freegas would even make attempt at a net search

I Do know the more common spec
He would not believe that either
 
You guys ARE my "net  search" SmileClap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FREEDGUY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 6:03pm
Originally posted by DMiller DMiller wrote:

TBH
These engines are configured quite different from other engines.

Yes dry sump but only 12 Qts on average. No cooling system as do not need where the massive flow of air and alcohol does act to cool them
Engine only has two rings, oil control and a compression changed every tear down which leads to oil itself.
Most use a basic 70 wt oil, clearances in the engine are not designed for longevity but duration of race. Oil becomes so alcohol diluted during a run it has to be discarded, as the injection system floods the cylinders with the fuel much of which gets past the rings.

They are far from economical as consume some four to five gallons of Nitromethane Methanol fuel for a quarter mile.
Thank you for the clarification of "quantity" of the oil, I knew it was a separate sump, and my friend said it was due to MAJOR fuel contamination as well as metal pollution during runs  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 5:13pm
I used to change the oil on my dirt cars every other week. 7quarts.
I also changed back and right front tires every week or every other at the least.
I bought Hoosier 970’s by the pickup load.
Imagine all the tires used up in a NASCAR weekend.
I think I read once that cup averages 400 Goodyears a week???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bigal121892 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 5:02pm
There used to be a IHRA sanctioned track on part of the old air base at Scribner NE. Once a year, the top fuel dragsters would be there. Always amazed my how when those cars would go by, my fountain pop would fizz over the top, just from the vibrations.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 2:32pm
The motor is pretty much tearing itself apart in that run. I would almost bet the oil is shot. 

Ok so the pullers must do the same
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 2:16pm
Never been to a top fuel drag event.  But, I can remember the first tractor pull I went to at Bowling Green, OH and the Ohio State Fair!  Similar awakening to having "seen" it on TV I'm sure.  Even the time 43 cars came by me at 200mph as I was walking by the fence!  Some things the ol' TV doesn't do justice for sure!
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