Top Fuel Dragster ??
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=189014
Printed Date: 19 Apr 2024 at 10:36pm
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Topic: Top Fuel Dragster ??
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Subject: Top Fuel Dragster ??
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2022 at 7:11pm
Was informed that these engines hold 30 qts. of oil and is dumped every run   . Is there merit to this information ??
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Replies:
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2022 at 7:16pm
| Nope |
Posted By: bigal121892
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2022 at 7:23pm
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Since they get rebuilt after every run, I would think they would get fresh oil as well, don't know about the 30qts. |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2022 at 7:39pm
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Was seeing if Freegas would even make attempt at a net search I Do know the more common spec He would not believe that either |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2022 at 8:02pm
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the "OIL" they run would be unrecognizable to him... and most others. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: AllisFreak MN
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2022 at 8:49pm
I think Freebie dumps 30 quarts of beer every Saturday night - down his gullet. ------------- '49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2 |
Posted By: Lars(wi)
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2022 at 8:58pm
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More than likely some sort of synthetic. Way, way, more advanced than automotive motor oil. As for dumping after every race? I wouldn’t doubt it, with engine rebuild after every race, and the desire to squeeze every available hp from the engine, there may not be an oil cooler, very minimal oil pump, running at very high temps, etc. So fresh oil for the very run, is not unimaginable. ------------- I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2022 at 9:05pm
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the cost of 30qts of new oil is NOTHING compared to destroying an engine using used oil that has 1 sliver of steel from a previous run.... ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2022 at 10:18pm
| being dry sump pans they my have a large oil tank to pump cooler oil |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 6:23am
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TBH These engines are configured quite different from other engines. Yes dry sump but only 12 Qts on average. No cooling system as do not need where the massive flow of air and alcohol does act to cool them Engine only has two rings, oil control and a compression changed every tear down which leads to oil itself. Most use a basic 70 wt oil, clearances in the engine are not designed for longevity but duration of race. Oil becomes so alcohol diluted during a run it has to be discarded, as the injection system floods the cylinders with the fuel much of which gets past the rings. They are far from economical as consume some four to five gallons of Nitromethane Methanol fuel for a quarter mile. |
Posted By: sho-man1
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 9:10am
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https://www.hotcars.com/insane-facts-you-never-knew-about-top-fuel-dragsters/%20" rel="nofollow - https://www.hotcars.com/insane-facts-you-never-knew-about-top-fuel-dragsters/
If you ever get to attend an NHRA event, just set in the pits next to one of the teams and watch what they do between runs...Most impressive...especially when the rebuild is complete and they fire the engine up on gasoline for few seconds until the nitro-methane gets ignited...dang, earplugs and respirators help. BBRRUUMMP. Watching videos is never good enough to experience verses in person. My son works for a company that sponsored Brittney Force's top fuel dragster, I got to stand right behind that monster on the starting line during qualifying run. Nothing compares to that launch. Period.
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Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 12:51pm
| Setting in the grandstands at Top Fuel event is ridiculous (in a good way). I cant imagine being at the starting line. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 2:16pm
| Never been to a top fuel drag event. But, I can remember the first tractor pull I went to at Bowling Green, OH and the Ohio State Fair! Similar awakening to having "seen" it on TV I'm sure. Even the time 43 cars came by me at 200mph as I was walking by the fence! Some things the ol' TV doesn't do justice for sure! |
Posted By: Mikez
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 2:32pm
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The motor is pretty much tearing itself apart in that run. I would almost bet the oil is shot. Ok so the pullers must do the same
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Posted By: bigal121892
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 5:02pm
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There used to be a IHRA sanctioned track on part of the old air base at Scribner NE. Once a year, the top fuel dragsters would be there. Always amazed my how when those cars would go by, my fountain pop would fizz over the top, just from the vibrations. |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 5:13pm
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I used to change the oil on my dirt cars every other week. 7quarts. I also changed back and right front tires every week or every other at the least. I bought Hoosier 970’s by the pickup load. Imagine all the tires used up in a NASCAR weekend. I think I read once that cup averages 400 Goodyears a week??? |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 6:03pm
Thank you for the clarification of "quantity" of the oil, I knew it was a separate sump, and my friend said it was due to MAJOR fuel contamination as well as metal pollution during runs
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DMiller wrote:Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 6:05pm
You guys ARE my "net search"
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Posted By: LouSWPA
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2022 at 10:20pm
------------- I am still confident of this; I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord; be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27 |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2022 at 5:14am
I believe you’d be correct. There are 160 on the ground at any given time not counting backup cars. |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2022 at 5:19am
Lou I just did a quick search. Cup is allowed 15 sets of tires per team for the Daytona 500. That would be 2400 for that weekend just the cup teams.👀 |
Posted By: Wayne180d
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2022 at 10:52am
| I thought I read somewhere those top fuel dragsters burn like 12 to 15 gallons of fuel in their 1/4-mile run. |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2022 at 5:48pm
Damn DUDE
 , you're going to get FLAMED for that harrassy without "due-diligence" on google  !!! |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2022 at 6:19pm
Shoot, Mr Blobby drinks that much beer, in the same amount of time! ------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2022 at 8:08am
| What is harrassy???? |
Posted By: fixer1958
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2022 at 8:14am
| I think it was supposed to be 'harryass' whatever that means in the context of the comment. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2022 at 8:22am
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That's what I thought too. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2022 at 9:18am
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harry ass is what you get when you SIT in your Blue Oval, and SET at a RR crossings for 25 minutes , drinking beer in the hot sun. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Les Kerf
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2022 at 8:19am
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Back in the late 1970's I was in the Marines and was stationed near the old Orange County International Raceway (now defunct) in southern California. My buddies and I regularly attended the drag races there and at that time it was easy to get into the pits to watch the race crews. There were mostly Keith Black and Donovan hemi engines being used at that time; those engines have the entire bottom end designed as one piece, what would be the oil pan has the main bearing caps built into it as a large, sturdy framework. When they drained the oil out it was a nasty, yellowish, stinky mess from the nitro-methane contamination after just one pass down the strip. Using air tools they could pull the "oil pan" in less than a minute; back then they didn't always pull the pistons and heads every run but I believe they may do that nowadays, I haven't really kept up with the craft in recent years. ET's were in the low 6's then with the fastest cars breaking into the high 5's. I understand they are quite a bit quicker than that now. |
Posted By: plummerscarin
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2022 at 11:11am
| I think Eddie Hill went 3.99 several years ago |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2022 at 12:54pm
| Sub 4’s can be done, and what? 310-325??? I don’t follow it either. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2022 at 12:55pm
| Are they using G seats or suits now? If not must be dang close to that requirement. |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2022 at 5:08pm
Your "dirt car" isn't even in the same hemisphere as a top fuel dragster is it
?? |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2022 at 5:12pm
YES, I just confirmed with my friend this evening, the buggy they ran held 30 quarts in a reservoir and pumped to the engine
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Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2022 at 5:12pm
| Evidently Never Raced Freegas. |
Posted By: Jordan(OH)
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2022 at 5:41pm
| Freebie only races to beat the train |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2022 at 8:38pm
And getting to the beer store!  ------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2022 at 11:31pm
| Top fuel cars have been running 1000 ft for several years (10?). Quarter mile speeds were getting too fast for shut down. They have regained the speed in 1000ft they used to run in a 1/4 but have a longer shut down distance. It's hairy scary.... |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2022 at 1:33am
A dirt-track car makes more revolutions in one lap, than the top fueler makes in it's entire run. Remember, the top fuel is running at somewhere around 8500rpm for 3.3 seconds. That seems like a lot, but do some math... 8500/60*3.3 ... That's about 470 revolutions. A dirt-track heat race has an engine spinning between 4000-6500rpm for 12 laps on a quarter-mile circle... You're looking at about four minutes... that's 20,000 revolutions. Now get in a car, take a 15 minute drive to the grocery store... at 2400rpm... that's 36000 revolutions. They're all totally different applications. The top fuel engine will NOT survive in a dirt-track race, and it certainly WILL NOT make it to the grocery store... the design for each is optimized for the circumstance to which is is intended. As others noted, top fuel dragsters have basically no cooling system. The fuel used has SOME impact on the reduction of cooling requirement, but moreso, the amount of time that the engine actually RUNS, is very short. The dragster engine is a LOW DUTY CYCLE engine. The dirt track racer, the grocery-getter, the over-the-road truck, and the field tractor, are Fuel and oil are frequently located in FRONT of the engine, as the accelleration forces approach 5G. Oil and fueling are considered a 'total loss' system, reservoir fed, not withdrawn from the pan. Why? Several reasons- first, because oil coming OUT of reciprocating assembly is aereated INSTANTLY upon departure, and as a result, cannot easily be reconsolidated to be pumped forward to the oil tank without considerable input of extra horsepower from scavenging pumps, and because pumping oil OUT of the pan, and pushing it back forward into the tank, adds weight, costs wheel horsepower, and provides no benefit to the needs of the race. Starting with a full supply tank, by the time the engine has completed it's run, the supply tank is almost empty, the used oil tank towards the rear, is about full. The volume of oil used, is a function of run time and engine speed. ------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest. |
Posted By: Pat the Plumber CIL
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2022 at 7:31am
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Tim Wilkerson is a local Top fuel funny car driver who still has his shop in Springfield. I was cleaning drains at his shop a few years ago . I asked him how sketchy it is to make a run . He said running down the track is hairy at best , but he said the real scary part is trying to slow down and stop . Those tires are stretched like rubber bands and then you try and wrangle them in as you slow down . He also talked about the fuel. He claims it's not very explosive or volatile. He says the challenge is getting enough fuel into cylinder before it ignites. ------------- You only need to know 3 things to be a plumber;Crap rolls down hill,Hot is on the left and Don't bite your fingernails 1964 D-17 SIV 3 Pt.WF,1964 D-15 Ser II 3pt.WF ,1960 D-17 SI NF,1956 WD 45 WF. |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2022 at 9:27pm
Nitromethane fuel is CH3NO2. It carries sufficient oxygen to combust at Air/Fuel ratios of UNDER 2:1, where gasoline needs to be at 13.8:1... that means substantially more atmospheric air must be pulled in, in order to attain combustion. Because of it's included oxidizer, Nitromethane is VERY EASILY ignited. In principle, building an engine for nitromethane is really all about how much chamber volume is left at TDC, and how to get the chamber packed full of LIQUID, while at the same time putting in JUST ENOUGH AIRSPACE to prevent the cylinder from becoming hydraulically obstructed by the liquid component... as overfilling will cause a rising piston to STOP as soon as the cylinder volume doesn't allow. I suspect that Tim's reference is to Methanol... it is EXTREMELY difficult to get it to ignite... totally different scenario. Nitromethanol, poured into a closed cylinder and compressed with a ramrod, will autoignite just as Herr Diesel postulated. ------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest. |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2022 at 1:22pm
| Ain't much left of spark plugs after a run but then again not much needed with the self combusting thing |