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AC7060IL 
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Location: central IL
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 Topic: HD16 - info please
Posted: 05 Feb 2015 at 4:10pm |
I'm a farm tractor guy, so I still learning about dozers. I looked at an Allis-Chalmers HD16 dozer in Missouri today. It was equipped with a huge front blade & rear drawbar only. No winches or pto. It has been sitting outside since 1980s. Engine had a steel plate covering the exhaust manifold. Exhaust manifold had a 1/4" rusted hole just forward of the upright but was under cover by hood. I'm thinking if any moisture got in that hole, it would have to be blowing rain or snow... Owner had it pull started and Engine runs, clutches, brakes, & transmission works. It drives ok. The undercarriage is needing replaced (drive sprockets, rollers, track chain). It hard to tell about final drives. They aren't leaking oil now, but who knows as time goes. All hydraulic hoses need replaced. What year is it? What does it weigh with blade? What's it worth? Thanks. tractor serial number: HD16DC-7266 engine serial number: 16000 (no turbo) Is this an early 844 that had crankshaft issues? blade model number: 16HS blade serial number: 2826
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DiyDave
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Gambrills, MD
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Posted: 05 Feb 2015 at 6:14pm |
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HD16G #7266 is 1965. Don't know for sure about the motor...
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Mactractor
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Posted: 05 Feb 2015 at 9:21pm |
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None of the earlier 844`s had bottom end issues. It was the very last 844`s (25000 engines) that had the issues. As I understand it, the troublesome engines had Japanese made 6 counterweight crankshafts. The engines with 12 counterweight US made cranks gave no trouble at all.
I`ve heard nothing but good about HD16DC tractors
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CAL(KS)
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Location: Chapman, KS
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Posted: 06 Feb 2015 at 6:29am |
the motors were supposedly changed to 16000H in 64' so i dont know if this tractor somehow still had the earlier engine or if it was swapped in later as a replacement. I have a 16D parts tractor with a lanova engine in it, so swaps are done. this issue with the straight 16000 is the the journals on the crank are smaller than the 16000H and later motors. bearings are not easy to find. also the compression height of the piston and connecting rods are different than 64' and later engines. pistons no longer available.
the double reduction finals are strong. unless its leaking profusely and clunking, shouldnt be anything wrong.
sprockets can be replaced with new, but track and rollers could be a problem.
i know a guy who once owned 16's and used them in construction and quarries. he never said anything bad about them, in fact he remembered how well they pushed and said they just wouldnt stall.
34,000lbs bare tractor so probably 36-38K with blade.
Edited by CAL(KS) - 06 Feb 2015 at 6:30am
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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AC7060IL
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Posted: 06 Feb 2015 at 9:34am |
CAL(KS), 16000H may be correct. The engine id plate was pretty pitted, so reading it was difficult. I could make out the 16000 but there was something else stamped after it. Now, after reading your post, I took another look at my phone camera pic for it. 16000H.
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Mactractor
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Posted: 06 Feb 2015 at 1:27pm |
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When you asked about crankshaft issues, I thought you were refering to the cracks and breakages of the 25000 engines
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ACjack
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Location: Peoria, Arizona
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Posted: 06 Feb 2015 at 7:09pm |
 Mactractor wrote:
None of the earlier 844`s had bottom end issues. It was the very last 844`s (25000 engines) that had the issues. As I understand it, the troublesome engines had Japanese made 6 counterweight crankshafts. The engines with 12 counterweight US made cranks gave no trouble at all.
I`ve heard nothing but good about HD16DC tractors
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The Japanese cranks where no match in quality to the 12 weight US made cranks.
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hd16b
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Posted: 07 Feb 2015 at 11:41am |
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I have my 1975 16b all torn down and has the 6 counterweight crank,wish it had the other but what can you do.would love to post pictures but don't know how.
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Mactractor
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Posted: 07 Feb 2015 at 4:04pm |
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12 weight shafts with matching conrod/piston assemblies from 16, 19, 21 thou engines have been used as replacements to end the sleepless nights, but increasingly popular is repowering with the well proven Cummins big cam 855, which I dare say will be easy to gets parts for in future.
Heavy Equipment Forums featured a 16B repower a while back
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hd16b
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Posted: 07 Feb 2015 at 6:21pm |
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On a different note, I am in the process of rebuilding the engine in my machine and have found everything except new rod bolts, can anyone help me out
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AC7060IL
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Posted: 07 Feb 2015 at 8:00pm |
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Thanks everyone for your helpful inputs. Scrap man isn't getting this one. I purchased it from owner today. I will post pics when I get it hauled home. Its torque converter is missing heat exchanger hoses, so converter may need serviced or rebuilt? Illini AC carry any parts for that project?
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ACjack
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Posted: 07 Feb 2015 at 8:16pm |
hd16b wrote:
On a different note, I am in the process of rebuilding the engine in my machine and have found everything except new rod bolts, can anyone help me out
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Try ARP fastners. They make all kinds of thread fastners and all of the professional racers use them.
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AC7060IL
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Posted: 11 Feb 2015 at 9:35pm |
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Yesterday, I replaced its batteries and tried starting it. At first the starter would only click hard without engaging bendix. I screwdriver jumped the motor to find it in good running order. Just could not get the starter to engage. After about 40 minutes of clicking & tapping starter with hammer it engaged. To my surprise the 16000H turn about 1/4-1/2 turn and came alive. It did not smoke or miss. It's throttle response is incredible for a non-turbo diesel. After it warmed up for 15 minutes, I put it in gear. While lifting blade left cylinders hose blew & front grill hyd pump area began to leak. Steering was not good. I traveled about 50' then torque converter began to heat up & slip. I still got lots of work to do to it... But if I sat outside for 30 years I would have issues too. That AC 844 Engine is fantastic!
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Lazyts
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Posted: 12 Feb 2015 at 9:17am |
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Good on you. Not too many can say they have a HD16DC anymore... Now you are unique amongst your neighbors! Time to get some grease on your sandwiches.
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AC7060IL
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Posted: 12 Feb 2015 at 10:12am |
 
Now that the engine starts & runs, I need to drain Torque Converter (TC) fluid (milky brown gunk on dipstick). There is a fluids/grease plaque on the left battery's front panel that tells what each system requires for fluid. TC is listed as ATF, not diesel. I will need to unbolt belly guard to drain TC reservoir and clean suction screen. I have thought perhaps I could remove TC oil filter, start engine and let idle, & let it pump fluid out that way? Anyone do this in a way that removes most fluid at one time?
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Mactractor
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Posted: 12 Feb 2015 at 1:41pm |
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The Twin Disc converter in my 11 has a drain plug right down the bottom facing rearward which is difficult to get at because its just about on the big curved frame crossmember. I repaced the hex head one with an inhex to make it a bit easier to screw in and out using flexi sockets. Draining is messy as the fluid runs onto the big crossmember, but it drains the converter thoroughly. I refill through the ports to the heat exchanger.
The bearings in the converter nearly all ballrace, with a special one in the sprag clutch. You DONT want to run it low on oil.
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Dgrader
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Posted: 12 Feb 2015 at 7:02pm |
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AC7060IL, that dozer looks pretty good for sittin out for 30 yrs. Good find. Looks like your gonna become an experienced dozer man.
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AC7060IL
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Posted: 12 Feb 2015 at 9:18pm |
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Thank you all for your suggestions and good remarks about this HD16DC dozer. My initial thought about buying it was to just salvage the engine. I must admit, the little distance that have operated this huge machine has caused much excitement in me. I could see myself clearing fence rows, digging a small lake, or pulling a field tile plow in the future with this beast of a dozer. One step at a time though.
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AC7060IL
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Posted: 16 Feb 2015 at 12:52am |
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Norms book states that in 1965 only 36 HD16s were built. Do you think he was refering to AG only or would that be construction & AG??
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ac_sd
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Posted: 19 Mar 2015 at 1:20am |
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It looks good, that under-carriage doesn't look too bad either by your pictures... Good for you!
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ACcrazy
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Posted: 19 Mar 2015 at 8:12am |
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HD16s rule! Love those machines.
Any updates??
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AC7060IL
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Posted: 20 Mar 2015 at 4:50pm |
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Haven't done anything to it since I last posted. The cold weather shut me down. Now that it's warmed back up I need to get back at it.
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hd16b
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Posted: 20 Mar 2015 at 8:23pm |
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I know where one just like it is sitting and the owner is trying to sell it in eastern nc
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CAL(KS)
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Posted: 20 Mar 2015 at 9:29pm |
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i really like my cable blade and direct drive 16 and would love to find a hydraulc machine with converter or PS
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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Eric B
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Posted: 22 Mar 2015 at 12:17am |
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The factory brochure has the HD16DC at 44220 Lbs. with the dozer blade on.
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Currently- WD,WC,3WF's,2 D14's B. Previously- I 600,TL745,200,FL9,FR12,H3,816 LBH. Earth has no sorrow that Heaven cannot heal!
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AC7060IL
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Posted: 02 Jun 2015 at 7:50am |
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Recent heavy rains have allowed me some time to finally get back to this dozer. I am in process of replacing blade lift cylinder rubber hyd hoses that route from front pump/valves to cylinders. I used my 706b forklift to safely lift, unchain, & lower the dozer blade. Took off dozer front nose grill to access hyd valve/pump assy. After the blade lowered, I noticed some pitting on blade cyl rams. I emery clothed them to smooth them & see how deep pits were. Not terrible, but wondered what others do about ram pitting? I'll try & post some pics later.
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 02 Jun 2015 at 8:44am |
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Crazy as it sounds,Belzona makes a product they claim will"fix" your rods.I used some of their stuff on my 8070 spindles.The vertical part had excessive wear on the half that carries the load(top and bottom).Roughed area up more with angle grinder and applied Belzona and had machined round thinking no way will this hold/work.Installed new bushings and spindles.Still no play with axle jacked up after 3 yrs/200hrs.Aint gonna take them apart to see how they look,just doin the jack up test from time to time.Figured I didn't have much to loose....
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Eric B
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Posted: 02 Jun 2015 at 12:58pm |
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If you're not after perfection and it's a part time machine those rams will probably serve you well for a good bit of time. The trick is doing the emery cloth treatment before the seals take damage from the sharp edges of the tiny pitting. If it amounts to a gallon of hydraulic oil over a couple of years .....just do the cost comparison to re-chroming or new rams?
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Currently- WD,WC,3WF's,2 D14's B. Previously- I 600,TL745,200,FL9,FR12,H3,816 LBH. Earth has no sorrow that Heaven cannot heal!
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DonBC
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Posted: 02 Jun 2015 at 3:42pm |
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Yeah, don't go the re-chroming route unless you are prepared to spend lots of money. I took a ram from my D grader into a hydraulic repair shop to have the leaking seals replaced. When I went to pick it up the bill was something like $500. I said there has to be a mistake. They said no, the ram was pitted so they re-chromed it. Didn't someone call you to ask approval they said. No and I wouldn't have approved. They did give me a generous discount but it was still a shock. I could have bought a lot of hydraulic fluid for what it cost.
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Jack of all trades, master of none
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Ian Beale
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Posted: 02 Jun 2015 at 5:28pm |
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Here in Oz the cost of getting a whole new rod made up isn't too bad.
I've just had issues with one of the ripper cylinders on our FA 10. Got away with a thread insert for the piston nut at about $A150. A whole new rod would have been around $350.
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