technology. good or not..

singingpig wrote: John (C-IL) wrote: Well, take a little trip to India, China or Africa and see how those farmers are doing without technology. I'll take all I can get or afford. At the end of the day the technologically savy farmer will be feeding the world and the guy that doesn't have the technology will be feeding his family and his kids will be barefoot and living a subsistance lifestyle. Not necessarily, John. Depends on what you are farming and the scale.  If you are farming commodities or veg/fruits for processing where your net/acre is a few hundred dollars I would agree. On the other hand, if you are producing fresh veg and fruit where your net is $1000s/acre then the need for technology isn't as great. For example, I farm 20 acres that is almost a perfect square and flat. The only thing I spray is a fish/kelp foliar feed or some humates on bare ground.  I spread manure pellets and granular lime+trace with a cone spreader. I lay out my beds with my eyeballs....on 20 acres how much more efficient am I going to be with satellite guided equipment?  How much am I going to save by not overlapping my applications?

Ah marketing it a great thing, specially if your selling. All this "technology" that us farmers cant do with out cost about as much as it returns, so the net net net to us is nothing, but from the sellers of tech gear and it constantly updating systems its like printing money. We have a state of the art monitors on both our planters, cost big bucks doesnt tell us anything the old blinking lights didnt, yes it gives population seed spacing etc, but does it transfer into money ...no. Once in a blue moon it detects a problem with one row due to a chain, or some other malfuntion, and yes it did translate into yield, but the bottom line is it would have been detected when the planter stopped to fill, its not like the planter would have planted a 1000 acres like that. Auto steer which sounds awesome would be great if you had a bunch of guys working for you that had no idea of what they were doing, but the guy that runs our field cultivater in the spring has been here for 10yrs and if you watch his pass he is with in inches of his last pass its remarkable on a 50ft swath. We have tech that runs the sparyer controls the flow by speed etc, that saves money, but when it fails, and it does, the old pressure and speed way works till its repaired and I dont see the HUGE difference in chemical costs I was promiced. Yield monitors another high tech toy is great its about as accurate as counting trucks leaving the field and guessing thats another 1000 bu on it. If you made all the yield that the monitor is telling you we would all be rich, but the big scale doesnt lie. What is gained from the yield monitor is quick comparisons to varity and it does detect weak spots in the fields , however as a farmer I knew where those weak spots are I didnt need the monitor to tell me that, and some areas are just unfixable so there is nothing that can be done about the yield drop, but thanks for reminding me yearly of it. The old adage of figures never lie, but liars figure holds alot of weight with all this high tech, one comment was it allows us to farm more land, well awesome but you have to farm more land to cover the cost of all the high tech, so your right back to the dog chasing its tail. You wanna make money in farming and stay sustainable the biggest advice I could give anybody is to GET RID OF THE BANK!!!!!!!!!! When we paid off all dept we make way more money, life is much better, less pressure, more enjoyable and with a high net worth unencumbered by debt I can pass this to who ever and they can farm with out the pressure or the need to farm a million acres and 3 counties to please some a..hole in a suit telling me I need more high tech to be competitive. Just my take on it as a city boy gone farming but not following the herd mentality.

John (C-IL) wrote: singingpig wrote: John (C-IL) wrote: Well, take a little trip to India, China or Africa and see how those farmers are doing without technology. I'll take all I can get or afford. At the end of the day the technologically savy farmer will be feeding the world and the guy that doesn't have the technology will be feeding his family and his kids will be barefoot and living a subsistance lifestyle. Not necessarily, John. Depends on what you are farming and the scale.  If you are farming commodities or veg/fruits for processing where your net/acre is a few hundred dollars I would agree. On the other hand, if you are producing fresh veg and fruit where your net is $1000s/acre then the need for technology isn't as great. For example, I farm 20 acres that is almost a perfect square and flat. The only thing I spray is a fish/kelp foliar feed or some humates on bare ground.  I spread manure pellets and granular lime+trace with a cone spreader. I lay out my beds with my eyeballs....on 20 acres how much more efficient am I going to be with satellite guided equipment?  How much am I going to save by not overlapping my applications?   I agree with you to a point. What you are doing is fine and provides a good living for you. What you are doing won't feed 7 billion people on your scale. What you are doing is not sustainable, i.e. when you can't or won't do it anymore there won't be a line of people wanting to buy your operation or operate it the way that you do. Will technology solve that problem? Probably not.

I'm pretty sure no matter how big your operation is you aren't feeding 7 billion people either. lol I understand you're proud of what you do,but feeding 7 billion on just commodities?  How much of your dietary needs are filled directly from the crops you grow? IOW, how much of your corn do you serve at the dinner table?

As I said before, people need fresh food...veg, fruits, meat. Truck farms have been in existence for a long time and they will continue to exist for a long time to come. I will have no problem selling my operation, I could sell it now if I was ready but I think I have another 20 years or so left in me. Whether the buyer wants to do it my way...I don't really care. Once we have a closing it is theirs to farm as they wish, but in 20 years when I am ready I am positive that the demand for high quality produce and meat will have increased not decreased. Where I live, irrigated farmland like mine is $10-12k/acre right now...that won't be going down over the next 20 years. Add 30% premium to that for cert OG land like mine. There are roughly 1 million acres of farmland in the valley where I live. We are 1st in the nation in blackberry production, 3rd in raspberries, the region is 1st in blueberries, the valley is 1st in Xmas trees, peppermint and grass seed.  A lot of strawberries, sweet corn and green beans for processing as well. A very diverse crop mix out here...2 things we don't grow corn and soybeans. Too cool in the summers and the rains start to early to get them harvested.

Just got this in my email last night from The Rodale Institute...takes the exact opposite position the you are putting forward:

link to full UN report:

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/issues/food/docs/A-HRC-16-49.pdf

GENEVA – Small-scale farmers can double food production within 10 years in critical regions by using ecological methods, a new UN report shows. Based on an extensive review of the recent scientific literature, the study calls for a fundamental shift towards agroecology as a way to boost food production and improve the situation of the poorest.

“To feed 9 billion people in 2050, we urgently need to adopt the most efficient farmingtechniques available,” says Olivier De Schutter, UN Special Rapporteur on the right to food and author of the report. “Today’s scientific evidence demonstrates that agroecological methods outperform the use of chemical fertilizers in boosting food production where the hungry live -- especially in unfavorable environments.”

Edited by singingpig - 13 Apr 2011 at 9:34am

After erasing what I wrote, I give up. Move this all to the politcal section and pray for the almighty O to save everybodies asterisk.

My father told me 20 years ago that the worst thing that ever happened to agriculture was putting headlights on tractors. Think about it. Now you can plow 24 hours and rent all the neighbor's places!   I have 1 prediction--- today's current high prices ( $7.37 Corn ) will be the downfall of many. It would be better in the long run if corn was $5.00. The worst thing about high prices is high prices.

Ryan Renko wrote: My Dad remembers when there used to drive around to see who planted the straightest rows. It made for great talk in the local tavern!!! With this auto guidance stuff what are those fellows gunna talk about now in the bar?? I agree todays farmer has to feed the world, but kinda miss the old days to!! Ryan

An old Italian/Scottish guy I used to rent acreage from before I bought this place was well known for always having the straightest rows in his area. One day I planted 5 acres of tomatoes on his place without laying out every row with a string...man, was he mad.  Next morning he was shaking his cane at me and cussing me out. I just laughed and said "You get more in a crooked row." Of course in 6 weeks the plants had grown together and you couldn't tell if the rows were crooked or not, but he was so mad he didn't speak to me for 3 months.

I am 100% against guidence systems and all the electronics.  There should be more farmers and more 4 row equipment.  Just as little as twenty years ago the countryside was so neat to drive through and look at the old farm places and such, nowdays it's just bulldozers and tree piles and bare farmland.  You have see the so called farmer twice a year, to plant and then come back for harvest, then they bring the bulldozers back to push in more trees later.

i dont have any answers just a few comments.  yes i do remember checked corn.  the concept behind the electronics is fine its just that it isn't as easy to implement .  the day of the 15 year old tractor or pickup is fading fast and the feds, tractor salesman and envirementalist  are all cheering.   i don't have to make a living at our family farm thank god so mine is a persuit of happiness .  and for the most i am happy.   remember that we cannot serve two masters.

technology is great. if it wasnt for technology people would not be buying newer tractors. if it wasnt for newer tractors we could not buy the old ones, if there are no old tractors we would not have this forum. i love technology.hm

You know,  When Pop first sold Allis Chalmers B's to the small farmers his biggest competitor were the mules or horses.  When WWII came along and we basically had to produce tractors and the technology of the age helped make it happen.  That technology looked at today is way behind what we have.  A 100 - 200 Acre farm was fairly large in our area.  Now in the small state of Deleware I look at farms with acreage that seems like half the state.  They do it with equipment that I could only dream of.  Tractors that produce some 550 hp - pull 16 rows of no till planters, and combines that have heavens knows how wide a header.  All guided by technology that does straighter and more efficient rows that even the checked corn - which I well remember.  We are fortunate to live in a most efficient technologically savy age.  While, I miss the mule farming my Grandfather did I envy all who can avail themselves of the latest and best and most efficient farming system I have ever seen.  I know I won't but I would love to be around for another 77 years just to see how much further we all progress.  Yes, we will have problems but I'll take them.  We have always managed however feebly to best them too.  Well, guess I have said too much but I cannot tell you how much I enjoy living in this age.

you know the ffa creed comes to mind...

I'm not against technology but I am against policies that benefit the large producers over the small producer. Same with most other industries too.