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Coke 
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 Topic: Steering Good and Boogered
Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 3:32pm |
 So today this happened.  I can't even pull the steering arm off at the adjustment point as someone has booger welded it to the shaft!
Edited by Coke - 15 Oct 2018 at 3:34pm
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1957 D17 Diesel w/ M&W Pistons
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Coke
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Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 3:35pm |
 So how do I get the arm of the steering spindle? I got the snap ring off, but do I need to get the key out? Been pounding on it with a sledge as I don't have a torch. And do you think our local blacksmith can weld this back up, or should I be looking for a new arm?
Edited by Coke - 15 Oct 2018 at 3:36pm
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1957 D17 Diesel w/ M&W Pistons
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 3:41pm |
gotta be Monday ! man I do feel for you though ... It looks like you'll need a spindle and the arm piece....oh yeah, tie rod end with zerk too.... hmm maybe, just maybe you can use a thin cutoff wheel and remove a piece of the busted casting (2 cuts, 1 whack with cold chisel)? if it's like the D-14, they are 'keyed' so, cut there first as keystock is cheap and you may not damage the spindle. slow and steady, patience and you may win.....
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
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Coke
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Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 3:52pm |
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Dang. Why do I need the spindle piece too?
I can't get the thing to separate what you see on it is a bunch of WD40. I been using my little Thor hammer to try and get it off, no luck.
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1957 D17 Diesel w/ M&W Pistons
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AaronSEIA
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Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 4:08pm |
Can you get the nut off the tie rod end? Pickle for would have that piece off quick and save you some money. AaronSEIA
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Coke
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Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 5:05pm |
 AaronSEIA wrote:
Can you get the nut off the tie rod end? Pickle for would have that piece off quick and save you some money. AaronSEIA
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Pickle? It's spinning in place, I'll probably get it off, but I think tomorrow I need to get a fine torch, for the arm, the one I have just now would take out the tyre too 
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1957 D17 Diesel w/ M&W Pistons
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 5:10pm |
OK, as long as the arm wasn't welded to the spindle(which is what I thought) I'd cut/grind off the busted arm. I doubt a welder can fix it 'like new'. 2 cuts will get rid of a piece of the spindle, so the rest will come off.
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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DiyDave
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Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 5:43pm |
WD40 is not a penetrating oil. mix up some atf and acetone, 50/50, and drip a little of that, then try again. Rome wasn't built in a day, and some of these mechanical things take time, specially if you don't have the red wrench... 
Oh, and if yer hammer is a little thor, get a bigger hammer, and it won't get tho thor...
Edited by DiyDave - 15 Oct 2018 at 5:45pm
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AaronSEIA
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Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 6:17pm |
Ga, didn't proof read. Pickle fork. Tie rod fork. I wonder if you hammer it in there a bit if that wouldn't keep the thing from spinning. AaronSEIA
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Coke
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Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 7:31pm |
Groan at DIYDave  Tie rod fork, OK, autocorrect is a bane. I got to go up to town tomorrow anyways, right by Harbor Freight, so going to pick up a torch, already have the propane bottles. That'll cover the big part of the arm, on the spindle, not sure about the little part, it is spinning with the nut, on the tie rod end (not sure of name), along with the threads. Don't want to mung up anything else, hoping I can regrease and reuse that end, get it going. I doubt the arm can be fixed, but I'll try the local blacksmith, but the small end looks pretty frail and brittle anyway. Seems like a lot of places sell that arm, fits a bunch of models. So that's a bright spot. The welded adjustment point (tie rod?) I'm hoping to leave as is.
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1957 D17 Diesel w/ M&W Pistons
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AaronSEIA
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Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 8:09pm |
Try using a pipe wrench or channel lock pliers to hold the broken piece from spinning. The tapered part of the tie rod is wedged in there anyway. If you can get a good grip on it, that will let you get the nut off, then use the tie rod fork to pop it off the end of the tire rod. AaronSEIA
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Dakota Dave
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Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 8:58pm |
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Put a 1/8" cutting disk in your 4 1/2" angle grinder and cut the arm on two sides. You don't even cut all the way down to the spindle. Cut deep as you dare and wack it hard it'll break at the score and not damage the spindle. I personally would not even bother with the tierod end just replace it. When I did mine a complete tierod assembly was Cheeper than buying both ends and I didn't have to fight a rusty stuck one apart.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 9:12pm |
I would (as mentioned ) cut the broken arm off carefully with a 1/16 inch thick cut off wheel. one slice might be enough. Get a good used arm and then replace the adjustment rod with a new piece. I fought one of those half a day to get it apart and it wasn't welded! They get rusted together pretty bad. You might want to check those bearings for the vertical steering shaft. It looks like there may be some slop in those. Now would be the time while you can drop the spindle out the bottom. It was well worth the effort on the WD I repaired. Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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AC720Man
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Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 9:21pm |
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Dakota Dave is correct, carefully cut both sides. You may try a chisel in the cut and wack it with a hammer. Or try a two point puller, after all that’s what the hole in the top is for. Replace the whole tie rod assembly, as said before it’s cheaper to replace it all than each piece separately. Found that out when I called Brenda at Sandy Lake about my XT.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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AC720Man
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Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 9:23pm |
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Chris is correct also, he chimed in as hit post lol.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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FREEDGUY
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Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 9:29pm |
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Looks like the cast arm was welded on before ??
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shameless dude
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Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 9:38pm |
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don't hit your fingers!
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Coke
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Posted: 16 Oct 2018 at 2:23am |
AC720Man wrote:
Or try a two point puller, after all that’s what the hole in the top is for. Replace the whole tie rod assembly, as said before it’s cheaper to replace it all than each piece separately. Found that out when I called Brenda at Sandy Lake about my XT. |
What would the puller push against? I like the idea of a puller more than using fire BUT don't see where it would seat? Or is it clawing up on the two edges of the arm, and down the middle of the spindle, maybe I'm being obtuse.
Edited by Coke - 16 Oct 2018 at 2:25am
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1957 D17 Diesel w/ M&W Pistons
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AaronSEIA
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Posted: 16 Oct 2018 at 5:56am |
[/QUOTE] What would the puller push against? I like the idea of a puller more than using fire BUT don't see where it would seat? Or is it clawing up on the two edges of the arm, and down the middle of the spindle, maybe I'm being obtuse.[/QUOTE]
Yes. AaronSEIA
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Dnoym N. S. Can.
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Posted: 16 Oct 2018 at 6:21am |
![ABN Bearing Puller with 1/2" to 4-5/8” Inch Jaw – Splitter Tool for Wheel Hub, Gear Pinion, Bearing Separator](https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic/shoppingq=tbn:ANd9GcQpDLztHdZknTxYTuvbxIv-3lzAd3oxZqFB_tv-xSLaBEfVcEkXQkHcjZJRzki-j3ix5WuZfenDVes&usqp=CAc "ABN Bearing Puller with 1/2" to 4-5/8” Inch Jaw – Splitter Tool for Wheel Hub, Gear Pinion, Bearing Separator") HTH
B:-) Dnoym
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ac-mike
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Posted: 16 Oct 2018 at 7:43am |
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I did not read anywhere if you are aware that you cannot drive the spindle out of steering arm. The steering arm has to come off and remove key before the shaft can move out of the knee. The broken steering arm eye that is on the tie rod can be removed by laying it on an anvil and striking the other side with a heavy hammer, you may rotate it to help get it to release. The reason the tie rod was welded on is because someone replaced the tie rod with an import part and did not change the factory clamp. The import clamps are very prone to slipping. If you decide you want to salvage the tie rod, you will need to grind away the weld. Then you can lay this on the anvil and peen it to loosen it. You can than try various methods to pull it out. Many times I weld a slap hammer puller to it, use some heat and bring it out. Laugh at my methods if you wish but I get them apart without destroying them.
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Coke
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Posted: 16 Oct 2018 at 3:12pm |
Well bit of a fiasco today. Got a set of 3 pullers from Harbor Freight,
they had a nice heavy looking Pittman puller but the opening was too
small, so I had to go with a two jaw puller set. Started with the biggest puller, it bent to a 45degree angle and stayed there  So went to the medium size puller, it snapped a bolt So I figured I had to use the torch (new from Menards for the purpose), had a bugger of a time getting it lit, got it lit, it burned for a second and a half and went out. Refused to light, no hiss of gas, even another tank didn't help So at that point I stopped, rather than pound on it in frustration. I'm back in town Thursday, so all this stuff is going to have to sit.
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chaskaduo
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Posted: 16 Oct 2018 at 3:52pm |
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Coke I'm feeling for ya.
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1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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chaskaduo
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Posted: 16 Oct 2018 at 4:19pm |
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Coke I just confused you with Coke in MN, but I still feel for ya. I just did a strut that fought back.
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1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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Lonn
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Posted: 16 Oct 2018 at 4:46pm |
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I've found the only good torches are sold at the gas supplier's. Throw the pullers away. Get a good torch with a rosebud tip. Remove tire and rim. Heat until arm is red hot and douse with cold water. Tap arm off with a hammer. To reinstall heat the new arm red hot again, making sure to line up key in spindle with slot in arm, drop the red hot arm onto the spindle with a couple pair of pliers or visegrips. Tap down into place. Let cool to shrink fit onto arm again. Install snap ring.
Edited by Lonn - 16 Oct 2018 at 4:47pm
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Coke
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Posted: 16 Oct 2018 at 5:22pm |
You heat it, then cool it, before trying to remove? Not remove it hot? Wonder why they didn't just make a custom puller like this? 
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DiyDave
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Posted: 16 Oct 2018 at 5:30pm |
Coke wrote:
You heat it, then cool it, before trying to remove? Not remove it hot?
Wonder why they didn't just make a custom puller like this?
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You can try the wax trick, heat to 500ºF, or so, let it start to cool, and as it cools, stick a beeswax candle, on the joint, in question, let the wax wick into the joint, as it cools.
Edited by DiyDave - 16 Oct 2018 at 5:31pm
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Lonn
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Posted: 16 Oct 2018 at 5:52pm |
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You can use a puller if you want and then hammer it back on. I don't like to because it's my belief the arm will not be as tight as needed to ensure it won't come loose and ruin the spindle and arm. Several here will argue against that. But my way is the way I learned at the Allis dealership when I worked there years ago. If you have a torch I find it to be the fastest way with the least amount of effort and since it shrinks to the spindle I am sure it will never come loose. BTW the reason you douse it with cold water is to freeze the metal in it's expanded state so you can just tap it off with a hammer. You do what is comfortable for you.
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Coke
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Posted: 16 Oct 2018 at 8:23pm |
Lonn wrote:
BTW the reason you douse it with cold water is to freeze the metal in it's expanded state so you can just tap it off with a hammer. You do what is comfortable for you.
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But that's not how metal works, I mean I'm not a metallurgist or anything but I'm fairly sure it just contracts again when cooled. I do believe that the rapid cooling can change the metals structure tho' I beleve rapid cooling can change the hardness, maybe making it more brittle. These parts are cast iron, yes?
Edited by Coke - 16 Oct 2018 at 8:25pm
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DougG
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Posted: 16 Oct 2018 at 8:53pm |
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How did Allis do this process at the factory I wonder?
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