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pull start a 180 diesel

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DSeries4 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DSeries4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2010 at 9:13pm
Clutch pedal probably moves, but everything is probably rusted up in the clutch housing.  Since you are a mechanic, why not take it apart to see what you are dealing with (including the engine)?  The cheap and easy way does not always work.
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JC-WI View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC-WI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2010 at 9:44pm

Mr john deere man, Just because you are a mechanic does not mean you have to be rude. Now I apologize to you for being blunt on that fact.  Everyone that commented gave their thoughts freely to you, not expecting ears to be rolled backwards.  How would you like me to berate you for being a mechanic that is going at this problem in a caveman fashion? No, I don't think we need to go there either.

 I had an engine that I could turn over almost 350 degrees and couldn't get it past top dead center. ... Carbon build up. had engine that would turn stiff on the starter and pry fairly easy through starter hole, engine condition was unknown to me. Took pan off and found main thrust bearing metal stuck to crankshaft. removed the material from crankshaft and put new thrust in and have been using the tractor since 1986, uses no oil between oil changes. another engine, would turn a few turns and lock up, some one had dumped oil into intake and when it started spinning, it would suck it up and then stop. while sitting the oil would go past rings. It eventually started but engine had a squeek in it... parts engine. then there was the one that would suck gas up from bad carb and washed the cylinders and got stuck then rusted. and another where water ran down the exhaust manifold and caused the engine to have bent push rods.

 And yet another where if the tractor did not start on the third crank, it would not start because battery would be hot and the cables too ... That was caused by a pole shoe in the starter having come loose and dragged on the armeture real hard yet could spin starter by hand and not think anything was wrong.
  Like several others have said, find out what is causing the dragging on the starter.
 Hope you have success,
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joshjohndeere View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote joshjohndeere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2010 at 10:02pm
well thank you guys all of you i see everyone has gone soo far from my question of wether or not there was a way to physically lock in the powerdirector with hydraulics or pneumatics so i can pull the damn thing and get it were i want it.  im sorry i must not meet several of you guys's mechanical know how "the cave man comment".   this would have been much easier if my father who was a 40 year allis chalmers mechanic was still alive. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeanSWMO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2010 at 10:10pm
Been around a 180 my entire life as well as worked with old time AC mechanics. It cannot be done all you will succeed in doing is tearing it up more. If it was mine I would take the head off and investigate a little more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 7060 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2010 at 11:46pm
It sounds to me like you've already got enough answers on locking the power director up to pull it, Im with the rest of them, if it was made to be pulled they would let you know it. No matter what your problem is there a way to resolve it other than pulling it, but by all means it is your tractor so if you want to risk the life of yourself and whoevers helping you and risk the possible damage to the tractor I would say go right ahead but you've been warned. I haven't been around a 301 very much but if I was doing it I would pull the head off and make sure it didnt have rust in it if thats what you think is the problem and hone it maybe even re-ring it if needed. Ive torn apart engines that have set and people have tryed pull starting them, and have seen bent pushrods and so on...not saying that would be likely since you have already turned it, but Im pretty sure that if you took it to the local agco shop they wouldnt be pulling it around the lot with a contraption to pump up the clutches. This is just my opinion, and im sure you have probably had more hours working on tractors being a John Deere mechanic regardless of the color. I dont think anyone on here was calling you stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2010 at 6:17am
DRAllis told you early on before things got ugly that you can't pull start it. He's a darn knowledgeable guy from what I've read hear over the years. I'd take that answer and move on to some of the other suggestions given here. You are taking things too personal. No one here knows you or just how good a mechanic you are so you are going to get some basic advice,you may already know, whether you like it or not. Don't get offended just for that. 

Now here is what little I can offer you. My 7050, not the same engine, was a hard starter. I bought it from a farmer who had just put a rebuilt starter on it. It started hard still. I put another rebuilt on it after I put new heavier cables. Still didn't start good. Took my brother 7030 starter and put on it and bam. Started like it had never started for me before. I had owned it for a couple years by that time. So went back to starter rebuilder, of course too much time had passed by since I bought previous starter, got 3rd starter and that's what fixed the problem. Two rebuilt starters in a row were bad. Hope that helps some.

PS the 301 is a good engine and a 180 is a good tractor so may be worth going a little deeper into the engine if it comes to that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TexasAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2010 at 7:49am
Originally posted by joshjohndeere joshjohndeere wrote:

i can push in the clutch but im not 100% sure it is disconnecting becasue someone had stolen the starter from the tractor back when copper prices were high and u know the rest.  the reason im not sure if it is disconnecting is because im sure the clutch got some moisture in it with an open starter hole to the flywheel.  the lady i bought it froms husband finally died 2 years ago after being bed ridden since he parked the tractor so i cant get much insite on the whole thing.
 
Just a shot in the dark.  The tractor has sat for a while, any chance the PD clutch is engaged and stuck there?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FredW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2010 at 12:45pm
I guess if I was in his shoes I would feel the same because John Deere tech. guys dont like to ask Allis guys how to fix anything, seems they are above that. I will take exception to one I know now works at our local AGCO dealership, couldnt find a nicer fellow. I suppose I should take a hike also but just wanted to add support to the ones here. Fred
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote joshjohndeere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2010 at 6:51pm

im not above anyone otherwise i wouldnt have gotten on here and asked for advice.

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Brian Jasper co. Ia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian Jasper co. Ia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2010 at 8:01am
Snap-On makes a bore scope that will fit through a glow plug hole for a 6.0L Ford. I think if it were me working on it, and removing the head was not an option, I would pull the injectors and shoot a top quality penetrating oil in each cylinder. Something like Kroil, BG's In Force, or 50-50 ATF/Acetone.
On another note, I'm surprised my D17D did not have any bad noises from the rotating assy. I pulled the crank and it was obvious it had set for at least the 15 years I was told due to the rust on the crank journals. The sleeves all had rust "stains" on them too.
Someone elses thought about prelubing the oiling system is probably a good one. You can "rent" one of those pre lube tanks at O'Reilly's. I would give up on the idea of trying to pull start if it were me. If you did find a way to put some pressure on the P.D. clutch, you're not going to know for sure it's holding. Me being an auto trans tech, I see what happens when hydraulic pressure is lost frequently. The P.D. clutch is very similar to what you find in an auto trans. I'm thinking it would be hard for there to be too much drag from the P.D. being in neutral to keep it from starting if the clutch disk was stuck to the flywheel.
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nathan (SD) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2010 at 12:52am
Any headway on this project Josh?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote michaelwis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2010 at 8:41am
WOW   and   some think the political forum is rough   !!!!
 
oofta  !
WD WD45 DIESEL D 14 D-15 SERIES 2 190XT TERRA TIGER ac allcrop 60   GLEANER F 6060 7040.and attachments for all Proud to be an active farmer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BennyLumpkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2010 at 11:36am
yeah did you make any headway with this?? Im real curious to hear what you find/found to be the problem.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote joshjohndeere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2010 at 9:48pm
hey guys i talked with a co worker he has been in the deere world for 49 years and dicussed what all u guys told me.  i took off the new starter i put on it and might have the problem figured out. i can tighten down the inside bolt first and the starter cocks on me so we loosened up the outer and lower bolts alittle so the lock washer expanded alittle and it cranked over about 40 seconds this time before it slowed. soo i think im on the right track my starter or flywheel are binding somehow. will update u guys more as i progress.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SHAMELESS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2010 at 9:31am
<<<wonders if shims are needed?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote joshjohndeere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2010 at 12:10am
just an update on the 180 starting problem i puled my injector and found water had leaked into #3 and #4 cylinders i just ordered a new full overhaul kit and started stripping the block down hope to have her running by next weekend.  i will update with pics of my progress and by the way i have to say thanks to all who gave me advice on here a coat of paint and 700 dollar overhaul kit and my $800.00 missouri 180 will be a runner.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2010 at 6:06am
Never had a starter bind up like that on any 180 thru 7000 series. Was the same starter used as the rebuild every time? I'm thinking the drive was bent? You got that baby cheap. Good luck and maybe you can post a video of it when you get it running so we can see what a $1,500 and new paint (not to mention some head scratching) 180 looks like.

Edited by Lonn - 28 Jul 2010 at 6:09am
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