Need Help - W Speed Patrol (WC) Won't Run

I have a model W Speed Patrol, which is the same as a styled WC tractor, that won't run that I'm trying to get ready to sell at an auction this coming Saturday.  It has fire (just had the mag rebuilt and it's hot), new plugs and a rebuilt carburetor.  Compression tests out at nearly 120 psi on three cylinders and around 105 for the other.  It will give about half-hearted pop when you first start cranking, then just turns over with an occasional little wisp of fumes out the exhaust.  The carb was bench tested to verify the needle valve is opening and closing and the float is good.  I put my hand over the air intake on the carb while cranking, and it had some vacuum, but not a whole lot.  I removed the carb and ran a piece of stiff wire up into the intake manifold passages a ways.  I disloged some dirt, rust and one walnut shell, but not a lot of stuff.  This tractor sat for several years in Missouri where the mud dabbers (like a wasp) build everywhere.  A mechanic friend guesses that the intake manifold is partially plugged up.  Unfortunately, the manifold bolts are rusty and would twist off.  Any ideas what the problem is, and is there something simple I can do to try and fix?

First off WERE IS THE AUCTION? Did you make sure that number one was on the compression stroke and that the mag was set to fire on number 1 when you remounted the mag. I would be concerned about other junk in the manifold too. I found acorns and such packed around the sleeves when I tore Lena apart. 

CTuckerNWIL wrote: First off WERE IS THE AUCTION? Did you make sure that number one was on the compression stroke and that the mag was set to fire on number 1 when you remounted the mag. I would be concerned about other junk in the manifold too. I found acorns and such packed around the sleeves when I tore Lena apart.

The auction is outside Sullivan, MO (about an hour west of St. Louis) on Saturday, September 25th starting at 9 AM.  A sale bill can be seen at www.bertiauction.com.  I did have the mag timed to fire on #1 when it was at the top of its stroke.

make sure that when you put the mag back on that you did not have it 180 degrees out of time, this is a very common mistake made when reinstalling a Mag or Dist.

Well, beyond the Dupont Lures, a shop vac pulling on the intake manifold while somebody is blasting air from the shop compressor down each cylinder would be my second option.

I know you know this: But you are setting the mag with the piston at top center on the compression stroke, right?

70Standard wrote: I had an old timer put the mag back on for me, and he used a wire to feel when the #1 piston was coming up.  I presume he got it on the compression stroke, but wasn't there when he did the work.  If it wasn't on the compression stroke, wouldn't it be blowing a lot of unburned fuel out the exhaust and/or backfiring like a shotgun?  I'm not seeing that.

Well, on account of the fact I am one, I'm willing to respect the talents of an old timer.

If its been sitting with the carb off that long, there's a real good chance you've got some valves stuck. A whiff of ether while cranking ought to get at least a hopeful sound out of it if everything else is OK.





Edited by CJohnS MI - 19 Sep 2010 at 7:48pm

70Standard
this is what i would do
(1) take all the spark plugs out
to make the engine easy to turn
over . You need to rotate the
engine slowly until the number
one piston begins the upward
motion on the compression stroke.
To do this I usually just put my
thumb over the number one spark
plug hole while rotating the engine .
Once I begin feeling air pressure
building up under my thumb, I know
that I am on the compression and
not the exhaust stroke bring it all
the way to the top.now take off the
distribute cap and see where the
rotor button is pointing that your
# 1 wire now turn it a little more
to see witch way the rotor is
turning  cw or ccw
 
(2)just put your thumb over the
number one spark plug hole while
rotating the engine with the plug
on the number one wire with a ground
on the plug check to see if it fire at
the same time as compression
(3) do this too the three other cylinder
(4) then come back here and tell us
what you found
if you need more help let us know
B:-)   Dnoym

CJohnS MI wrote: What Dnoym says: You need to confirm that your mag will spark & is timed.

Dnoym N. S. Can. wrote: 70Standard this is what i would do (1) take all the spark plugs out to make the engine easy to turn over . You need to rotate the engine slowly until the number one piston begins the upward motion on the compression stroke. To do this I usually just put my thumb over the number one spark plug hole while rotating the engine . Once I begin feeling air pressure building up under my thumb, I know that I am on the compression and not the exhaust stroke bring it all the way to the top.now take off the distribute cap and see where the rotor button is pointing that your # 1 wire now turn it a little more to see witch way the rotor is turning  cw or ccw   (2)just put your thumb over the number one spark plug hole while rotating the engine with the plug on the number one wire with a ground on the plug check to see if it fire at the same time as compression (3) do this too the three other cylinder (4) then come back here and tell us what you found if you need more help let us know B:-)   Dnoym

I rotated the mag CCW, and it sounded a lot better when cranking, but after about three or four seconds it quits the little hiccups and just turns over.  Did same with ether.

Sorry, just got news of an expected death in the family.

Ah, Dream is right of course. These old AC engines all fire at TDC. You can find a timing mark and make sure that your old time got it right, but I think he is close.

Pulling all the plugs and cranking with whichever finger will pulg the hole - there should be enough compression to blow your finger back - even if you press hard.

That said, it isn't often all four cylinders have stuck valves. And even two cylinders working would be enough to get it to run - very poorly.

Thanks Bob.  I'll follow your procedure and see what I find. Related question - I don't have the hand crank, and using the starter to spin it over to exact TDC on #1 is tough.  Turning the crank by hand can only be done in very small increments.  Is there a simpler/easier way that I'm missing?

Without the crank you should be able to accurately find TDC by removing the plugs and turn the engine over using the fan, as long as your fan belt is tight enough. Otherwise, clamp a good pair of vise grips to the crank extension shaft to roll the engine over to TDC.