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JohnCO 
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Niwot Colo
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 Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 10:52pm |
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What the heck is the last post on page one? Some Chinaman AC fan?
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"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
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nowversatile
Silver Level
Joined: 15 Nov 2009
Location: Western Cornbel
Points: 137
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Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 9:12am |
 GBACBFan wrote:
emotional decisions justifying good business decisions, one unpopular decision made by AGCO |
Justifying good business decisions? This was a good business decision? Their tractor sales in NA have effectively been halted! Not buy a few hardcores on this site, but by the overall market place speaking!
One unpopular decision? This is AGCO's core of how they got started, their roots; and it was not supposed to end there, Gleaner was to be eliminated as well, but that is on hold, along with Hesston, Sunflower and White planter. Meanwhile, the dictator is over in Europe buying Laverda and pledging to make that a core AGCO brand in Europe after preaching to us stupid Americans that we have too many brands and must embrace MF!
An earlier post referred to planning a 100th anniversary in 2014 for AC (something MF can't plan for many more years). That is a tremendous idea and something I would love to attend. I hope the planners go out of their way to make sure Dickenhagen is NOT invited!
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GBACBFan
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Location: Green Bay WI
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Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 9:42am |
I'm referring to my perception of the farmers poor business decision. I do understand from Byron's post how people ultimately make purchase decisions based on emotion first, but I struggle with how that emotion can drive anyone to buy an expensive piece of complex machinery with color as the main criteria.
BTW, where do you stand on buy America? That apparently didn't fit well with your argument, because you edited it out of my quote. It must be a secondary concern with you. It's not with me.
Edited by GBACBFan - 25 Nov 2010 at 9:50am
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DanWi
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Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: wttn
Points: 1779
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Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 10:15am |
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Does agco own both krause and sunflower?
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nowversatile
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Location: Western Cornbel
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Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 10:18am |
DanWi wrote:
Does agco own both krause and sunflower? |
Just Sunflower.
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DanWi
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Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 10:22am |
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Just wondering local dealer has both on lot,must have got them both with dealer buyout/merger.
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nowversatile
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Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 10:33am |
GBACBFan wrote:
I'm referring to my perception of the farmers poor business decision. I do understand from Byron's post how people ultimately make purchase decisions based on emotion first, but I struggle with how that emotion can drive anyone to buy an expensive piece of complex machinery with color as the main criteria.
BTW, where do you stand on buy America? That apparently didn't fit well with your argument, because you edited it out of my quote. It must be a secondary concern with you. It's not with me. |
It is to me as well, but getting tougher to do. Unfortunately, there are getting to be fewer and fewer all American products. Just for example, CNH is building an all new manufacturing facility in China for Iveco engines to power all of the new Magnums, combines and NH T8.X and T9.X tractors. While it is easy to say it is the price of labor, that is not the main factor. It is the out of control regulations that our government poses on industry that is strangling manufacturing in the US. Control and regulations supported by another dictator wannabee - Obama!
To your point on buying American, clearly it is a priority when possible, but my main point is this foreign dictator running AGCO that has gut the company roots and heritage is unacceptable to most of us. As pointed out earlier, the market place is saying the same thing. If color don't matter, just go buy MF, I don't care. Good luck with resale! Many of us here are not gullible and like the Neville Chamberlain type who just want to "get along" while you are being force fed products or ideas that somebody has decided for you.
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GBACBFan
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Location: Green Bay WI
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Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 10:46am |
I'm not a fan of AGCO's decisions either, and I believe those chickens will come home to roost. I do sometimes have problems following the conflicting arguments raised here.
You are absolutely correct on your assessment that it's not labor alone that makes us not competitive. The bigger factor is the government regulations placed upon our industry that are not imposed worldwide. It's a common problem for all US manufacturing, and is very, very frustrating.
Edited by GBACBFan - 25 Nov 2010 at 10:47am
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Dave in il
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Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Location: Manville Il
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Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 11:16am |
GBACBFan,
People make purchases every day based on brand loyalty most of the time color doesn't enter into it. If you want a Mercury, color is an option but not a deal breaker, if you can buy essentually the same car for less, but it's a Ford, that may be a deal breaker. I know Pontiac fans that swear they will never buy a GM product again.
What makes buying an Agco tractor a questionable business decision is probable poor resale value, and if the company will be around into the future. One of the reasons we orange fans get so emotional is that Agco is trying to rewrite the company history to justify the changes they're making. Kinda like selling Caddilacs but renaming them Ugo. Except around here Ugos had a much better reputation than Massey Fergusons.
As far as made in America, I'm afraid that will be harder to find in the future as manufacturers continue to go where labor and enviromental cost are lower. And with a global economy, parts used for assembly will come from all over the world. I don't think anyone wants to go back to the pollution of the 1950s and before, or see workers get routinely unjured and killed at work, while making less than a living wage so American companies can be "competitive".
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redline
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Location: Collins, IA
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Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 11:22am |
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What really bothers me on the regulations situation is, that after China gets done poisoning their own environment and making it unlivable, they will be able to wholly own OURS. We have been responsible enough, although with some real battles, to protect ours from groundwater pollution and other types of unhealthy contaminants to a limited degree. I hope that we somehow figure out a way to maintain ownership of it before we sell out completely.
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If it weren't for the last minute, I wouldn't get anything done!
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GBACBFan
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Location: Green Bay WI
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Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 11:30am |
Dave in il wrote:
GBACBFan,
I don't think anyone wants to go back to the pollution of the 1950s and before, or see workers get routinely unjured and killed at work, while making less than a living wage so American companies can be "competitive".
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ABSOLUTELY! I did not suggest we should be lowering our safety and environmental standards, the rest of the world should be raising theirs. We close a blind eye to allow imports from companies that are not responsible stewards of safety and the environment. We tolerate the level of pollution in China today that we had in the 50's. As long as foreign mfgrs have few standards, are allowed to pollute the same world we all live in, and are allowed to export their products to the US without penalty, we will be non-competitive in the world market.
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"The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you can never know if they
are genuine." - Mark Twain
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JohnCO
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Location: Niwot Colo
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Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 12:56am |
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Look at he imports of toys and food from China that are being rejected. The Chinese people are waking up to the fact that their own companies are making poisonous food and other products. I think the reason CNH is building the plant in China is that is where the demand is for the product. Some may be exported but a lot will stay right there. Look at all the imported car companies building plants here in the US. I think a lot of management is now reassessing their decisions to move production off shore. Some may even be patriotic enough to bring manufacturing back for no other reason then it is what is best for the company, workers and country. (I can dream, can't I)
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"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
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Byron WC in SW Wi
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Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 9:04pm |
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My first new tractor, when I started farming about seven years ago, was an AGCO LT-70. The only reason I looked at an AGCO was because it was orange and proud to be the "Allis Gleaner" company. I justified the LT-70 because at that time it was as American as any tractor built in that class at the time. The engine was Cummins and the company was American led and owned as far as I knew. I traded that tractor in on my RT100A as I was a company man by then. The tractor is great but the company has been a great disappointment.
Tractors around 100hp made in USA are the JD Premium models and the New Holland TV6070. I think some of the other CNH models are but am not for certain. Anything under 100 hp is made overseas except JD has an M model that is assembled in Georgia. The large hp premium Deeres have "Made In USA" on them while these models have "Assembled in USA." That means engines from Mexico, Cabs from US, (I believe), transmission for God knows where. I've contemplated getting a couple of those several times but haven't gotten myself to get in bed with Deere yet. I've been closer to the TV6070 except the deal fell apart last December when they raised their price by $5,000 after I test drove it.
GB, There is definite emotion involved and unless ones purchased an orange AGCO tractor and saw it value demoted over night I don't know if they can relate. I think also, this has been discussed at depth but AGCO's decisions not only don't make sense they contradict themselves.
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