More AGCO aquisitions
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Category: Allis Chalmers
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21103
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Topic: More AGCO aquisitions
Posted By: darrel in ND
Subject: More AGCO aquisitions
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2010 at 1:07pm
| Just read in my Farm and Ranch Guide magazine, that AGCO has aquired 50% interest in 3 North Dakota companies, Amity, Wil-Rich, and Wishek. Amity is the company that took over the Concorde air seeder plant in Fargo when Concord/CaseIH headed north to Canada to join Flexi-coil. Wil-Rich is a tillage equipment company that was dabbling in air seeders long before any present air seeder manufacturing companies even heard of an air seeder. Basically they did all of the expensive development work so other companies could reap the benefits. Wishek is a manufacturing company of off-set discs that make all other discs look like toys. Can't say that I'm all warm and fuzzy feeling about the deal, nor that it is a bad thing, basically just passing along the info. Being from ND, it kind of hits home a little. Darrel |
Replies:
Posted By: ScottinSWIL
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2010 at 9:26pm
| Well I guess Agco just upped the order on those Massey decals. The shame of it is in a few years when they have the controlling interest they will can some good pieces of machinery along the way. Sometimes I question their progress. |
Posted By: redline
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2010 at 10:23pm
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They will slap the MF decals on that equipment and pretend that MF did all the research and leg work on the products. Surely they can't have these as core brands now, can they? Somehow they have unofficially lifted the Laverda combine to a "core" brand while leaving the heritage that got them where they are out in the cold. Richenhagen continues to defy any logic. His methods are only losing Agco business in North America. It looks like the board would notice the unrest and disappointment out here in the trenches and be alarmed. They must be as arrogant and clueless as Marty is! ------------- If it weren't for the last minute, I wouldn't get anything done! |
Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2010 at 8:16pm
| 3 more brands to put on the "Do Not Buy" list. I purchased a new disc this spring and it came down to Wil-Rich or Krause, bought the Krause and as of this info am sure glad I did! Can see it coming now, red MF disc - Wishek series, what blasphemy. |
Posted By: Spud
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2010 at 9:10pm
| I was under the impression that it was a joint venture and not an aquisition. |
Posted By: Dave in il
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2010 at 9:13pm
| Isn't Agco a "mature" company that doesn't need to aquire other companies any more because they have the technology to design whatever the market needs or wants? Or some such BS like that. |
Posted By: Jeff-in-Kunkletown
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2010 at 9:26pm
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Why don't they drop the AGCO name altogether and just call everything Massey? I don't understand the concept of all these different companies. I liked it when companies offered a full line of equipment under one name just to cut down the time spent chasing after parts. Even if they did call everything they own Massey it would be a nightmare for parts guys and mechanics because how do you keep track of so much different stuff made by who knows who or where. ------------- Sucess is how high you bounce after hitting bottom. Gen. George S. Patton |
Posted By: AndrewGubbels
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2010 at 9:31pm
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I think whatever AGCO will do or try to do people with have something negative to say. They still have a good product going for them. ------------- Andrew Gubbels Gubbels Restoration |
Posted By: Jeff-in-Kunkletown
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2010 at 9:58pm
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I agree they have good products however the two closest AGCO orange dealers to me carry other manufactures lines and decided not ot pick up Massey or Challenger. The nearest MF dealer also sells CaseIH and their salesman tells me CIH outsells the MF in their area by a wide margin. I'd love to have a new Super 7 Gleaner, but its a little out of my budget - and way more machine than what I'd need lol. ------------- Sucess is how high you bounce after hitting bottom. Gen. George S. Patton |
Posted By: redline
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2010 at 10:33pm
------------- If it weren't for the last minute, I wouldn't get anything done! |
Dave in il wrote:Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2010 at 9:53am
Just like other acquistions, it starts at 50% and ends at 100%. How this acquisition fits into AGCO is a puzzle to me. The excess cash made in SA must be burning a hole in the dictators pocket.
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Posted By: Spud
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2010 at 6:33pm
| Why would it be a puzzle? A company in north america needs air seeding equipment to be a full line company. It makes sense to me. |
Posted By: redline
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2010 at 6:50pm
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What bothers me, and perhaps the others, is that this is the end of some good companies. They have been innovative and straight forward about their companies direction. That is all thrown out the window. They will lose their identity, the departments will be gutted, and the innovation will be gone. Whatever is left will be sold off and scrapped out to make a few stockholders happy for the short term with no regard to long term goals. Just wait and see. Remember Glencoe? White-New Idea? Agco-Allis? McConnell tractor? ------------- If it weren't for the last minute, I wouldn't get anything done! |
Posted By: GBACBFan
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2010 at 7:15pm
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What do Monarch Tractor Company, La Crosse Plow, Baldwin Harvestor Co. have in common? Of course they are three companies that were purchased by Allis Chalmers. They didn't exactly go down the sh!t shoot when and because AC aquired them.
Companies buying smaller companies is not a new phenomenon in this country. It's ironic that the Gleaner brand that is so fiercely defended as an AC mainstay was an AC aquisition. Historically purchased companies don't always loose their identity and loose all innovation. ------------- "The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." - Mark Twain |
Posted By: redline
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2010 at 8:13pm
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sometimes the purchaser is foolish enough to lose their identity and assume someone else's. ------------- If it weren't for the last minute, I wouldn't get anything done! |
Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2010 at 8:55pm
What happens with all of their Sunflower products? Buying out WilRich just for air seeding? It seems to me that air seeding technology could have been purchased stand alone for a lot less or developed organically as others have done. Not long ago AGCO announced acquisitions had ended and future product development would be done internally. They are purchasing air seeding technology, but yet doing ground up development on a self propelled forage harvester, go figure?
A pile of duplication. I have used Wishek discs on many occassions and there is simply no disc like it. It is now in dangerous hands. Like the post above, it won't be long and the announcement will come that all operations will cease and be consolidated into Beloit or Hesston! Truly sad as I went to college with guys that worked at WilRich.
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Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2010 at 9:13pm
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Yup. Three more companies I don't buy from. Wishek builds a good disk and I looked at getting one but didn't have a tractor big enough to pull their small one. Was contemplating an 8070 or other big Allis to pull one but not now. I thought AGCO had too many brands already? |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2010 at 10:13pm
| Spud, As far as it being a joint venture, or aquisiton, I looked back at the aricle, and it states : "AGCO, based in Duluth, GA, will aquire 50% interest in selected air seeding and tillage product lines currently sold under the Amity, wil-rich and Wishek brand names." It does say in the headline, though, that it is a partnership. Best grab youself a Farm and Ranch Guide, go to page 32A, and check it out. Myself, I'm not so against the deal, I'm sure that if AGCO didn't have their fingers in it, Some one else would shortly. My main peeve with AGCO is probably like everyone else's in the fact the it seems like AGCO is ashamed of the fact that Allis Chalmers is in their ancestry, and they want to erase them from their past. When in fact, if there hadn't been an AC, there wouldn't be an AGCO. Darrel |
Posted By: SHAMELESS
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2010 at 12:04am
| have ya'll seen the new "heritage" advertizement from agco?? |
Posted By: Herb(GA)
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2010 at 9:22am
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There is also the comment about competitors, if you can't beat them, buy them. |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2010 at 10:08am
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"It's ironic that the Gleaner brand that is so fiercely defended as an AC mainstay was an AC aquisition" - At least Allis-Chalmers was smart enought to keep the name on the combines after they shut down the assembly lines on their own All-Crop combines. They knew that the name Gleaner had meaning in it. This duluth Ga. dict doesn't care about N.A. .. or what this countriy's farmers want.. products made in the good ole USA. with good ole USA quality.
I'm tired of seeing imported crap and would bet theres a bunch else out there that don't want it either.
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Posted By: redline
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2010 at 12:23pm
------------- If it weren't for the last minute, I wouldn't get anything done! |
Posted By: Spud
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2010 at 3:38pm
| If companies don't want to lose their identity, they shouldn't sell out. I need to get Farm and Ranch coming again! I have been out of the loop. |
Posted By: GBACBFan
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2010 at 6:58pm
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JC, your statement above means that the LT, RT, and DT tractors switching from orange is really a moot point. Being built in France, they most certainly fall under the heading of "imported crap" Beauvais, France is a long way from the "good ole USA". ------------- "The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." - Mark Twain |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2010 at 11:01pm
| GBACBFan, Remember back in the seventieswhen dang neaqr 95% of the tractors at the state fair were FULLY American made? It saddens the heart to know this country got to deal with imported stuff instead of american designed and built. I just wish this country was really more self reliant and was able to produce its own goods. I remember a fellow was given a proto type of some gizmo that 3M had created and he used it for a week and the fellow told the engineers that it was great but they had to design a flaw into it or else the item would never wear out , prompting people to buy another one... and thats what 3M did. |
Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 7:37am
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GBAC, It's one of the things that I'm ticked off from. I bought my AGCO, in large part, due to that fact that it was orange and the Allis Gleaner Company. My dealer, however nice, is over 60 miles away and I can only begin to tell you how many dealers are closer that aren't AGCO. Anyway, I'm a made in USA guy. I search long and hard to find quality made in USA things. My RT100A is my biggest purchase, (besides our farm and it cost almost 40% as much as our farm), and it's foreign. Is it a nice tractor? Yup. I actually love it. But, I wouldn't buy it again, if it were Red, because in that hp range their are still tractors made in USA. It's one of my crazy understandings of crazy farmers, me being one. That a man has a rough time matching his shirt and socks and most of the time won't even care. But, if he can't match his equipment up it gets his goat. |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 12:11pm
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Bryon, are there still 100 hp tractors made in USA? I didn't think anything under 120-130 hp was built here or Canada. I'm wondering with the way the dollar is going if it won't be cheaper to build them here again, or at least in Canada, using some imported parts. ------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: GBACBFan
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 5:00pm
Well, Byron, you explained yourself extremely well here. In this whole discussion over the past months, your comment is very well put, and helps explain the frustration. I had to smile when I read it, but it's hard not to understand and respect your perspective. ------------- "The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." - Mark Twain |
Posted By: AllisFreak MN
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 9:14pm
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And to think it only took GBACB fan a year + to finally figure it out! It's what we've been saying all along. ------------- '49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2 |
Posted By: GBACBFan
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 9:31pm
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I'm still struggling with some of the double sided arguments (emotional decisions justifying good business decisions, the importance of made in USA and trashing foreign made product except for AGCO tractors, the unacceptability of having a new tractor painted per taste vs the need to buy it orange from the factory, the position that because of one unpopular decision made by AGCO, everything they do is frogged up) but I will concede I now understand how emotion over anything else is the driver for some. There's nothing wrong with that, I just struggle to get my mind around that. The mental pic of Byron happily wearing pink socks with an orange shirt but upset because his orange tractor is pulling a green plow helps me understand.------------- "The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." - Mark Twain |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 10:52pm
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What the heck is the last post on page one? Some Chinaman AC fan?
------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 9:12am
One unpopular decision? This is AGCO's core of how they got started, their roots; and it was not supposed to end there, Gleaner was to be eliminated as well, but that is on hold, along with Hesston, Sunflower and White planter. Meanwhile, the dictator is over in Europe buying Laverda and pledging to make that a core AGCO brand in Europe after preaching to us stupid Americans that we have too many brands and must embrace MF!
An earlier post referred to planning a 100th anniversary in 2014 for AC (something MF can't plan for many more years). That is a tremendous idea and something I would love to attend. I hope the planners go out of their way to make sure Dickenhagen is NOT invited!
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Posted By: GBACBFan
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 9:42am
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I'm referring to my perception of the farmers poor business decision. I do understand from Byron's post how people ultimately make purchase decisions based on emotion first, but I struggle with how that emotion can drive anyone to buy an expensive piece of complex machinery with color as the main criteria.
BTW, where do you stand on buy America? That apparently didn't fit well with your argument, because you edited it out of my quote. It must be a secondary concern with you. It's not with me. ------------- "The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." - Mark Twain |
Posted By: DanWi
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 10:15am
| Does agco own both krause and sunflower? |
Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 10:18am
Just Sunflower.
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Posted By: DanWi
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 10:22am
| Just wondering local dealer has both on lot,must have got them both with dealer buyout/merger. |
Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 10:33am
It is to me as well, but getting tougher to do. Unfortunately, there are getting to be fewer and fewer all American products. Just for example, CNH is building an all new manufacturing facility in China for Iveco engines to power all of the new Magnums, combines and NH T8.X and T9.X tractors. While it is easy to say it is the price of labor, that is not the main factor. It is the out of control regulations that our government poses on industry that is strangling manufacturing in the US. Control and regulations supported by another dictator wannabee - Obama!
To your point on buying American, clearly it is a priority when possible, but my main point is this foreign dictator running AGCO that has gut the company roots and heritage is unacceptable to most of us. As pointed out earlier, the market place is saying the same thing. If color don't matter, just go buy MF, I don't care. Good luck with resale! Many of us here are not gullible and like the Neville Chamberlain type who just want to "get along" while you are being force fed products or ideas that somebody has decided for you.
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Posted By: GBACBFan
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 10:46am
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I'm not a fan of AGCO's decisions either, and I believe those chickens will come home to roost. I do sometimes have problems following the conflicting arguments raised here.
You are absolutely correct on your assessment that it's not labor alone that makes us not competitive. The bigger factor is the government regulations placed upon our industry that are not imposed worldwide. It's a common problem for all US manufacturing, and is very, very frustrating.
------------- "The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." - Mark Twain |
Posted By: Dave in il
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 11:16am
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GBACBFan,
People make purchases every day based on brand loyalty most of the time color doesn't enter into it. If you want a Mercury, color is an option but not a deal breaker, if you can buy essentually the same car for less, but it's a Ford, that may be a deal breaker. I know Pontiac fans that swear they will never buy a GM product again.
What makes buying an Agco tractor a questionable business decision is probable poor resale value, and if the company will be around into the future. One of the reasons we orange fans get so emotional is that Agco is trying to rewrite the company history to justify the changes they're making. Kinda like selling Caddilacs but renaming them Ugo. Except around here Ugos had a much better reputation than Massey Fergusons.
As far as made in America, I'm afraid that will be harder to find in the future as manufacturers continue to go where labor and enviromental cost are lower. And with a global economy, parts used for assembly will come from all over the world. I don't think anyone wants to go back to the pollution of the 1950s and before, or see workers get routinely unjured and killed at work, while making less than a living wage so American companies can be "competitive".
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Posted By: redline
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 11:22am
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What really bothers me on the regulations situation is, that after China gets done poisoning their own environment and making it unlivable, they will be able to wholly own OURS. We have been responsible enough, although with some real battles, to protect ours from groundwater pollution and other types of unhealthy contaminants to a limited degree. I hope that we somehow figure out a way to maintain ownership of it before we sell out completely. ------------- If it weren't for the last minute, I wouldn't get anything done! |
Posted By: GBACBFan
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 11:30am
ABSOLUTELY! I did not suggest we should be lowering our safety and environmental standards, the rest of the world should be raising theirs. We close a blind eye to allow imports from companies that are not responsible stewards of safety and the environment. We tolerate the level of pollution in China today that we had in the 50's. As long as foreign mfgrs have few standards, are allowed to pollute the same world we all live in, and are allowed to export their products to the US without penalty, we will be non-competitive in the world market. ------------- "The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." - Mark Twain |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 12:56am
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Look at he imports of toys and food from China that are being rejected. The Chinese people are waking up to the fact that their own companies are making poisonous food and other products. I think the reason CNH is building the plant in China is that is where the demand is for the product. Some may be exported but a lot will stay right there. Look at all the imported car companies building plants here in the US. I think a lot of management is now reassessing their decisions to move production off shore. Some may even be patriotic enough to bring manufacturing back for no other reason then it is what is best for the company, workers and country. (I can dream, can't I)
------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 9:04pm
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My first new tractor, when I started farming about seven years ago, was an AGCO LT-70. The only reason I looked at an AGCO was because it was orange and proud to be the "Allis Gleaner" company. I justified the LT-70 because at that time it was as American as any tractor built in that class at the time. The engine was Cummins and the company was American led and owned as far as I knew. I traded that tractor in on my RT100A as I was a company man by then. The tractor is great but the company has been a great disappointment. Tractors around 100hp made in USA are the JD Premium models and the New Holland TV6070. I think some of the other CNH models are but am not for certain. Anything under 100 hp is made overseas except JD has an M model that is assembled in Georgia. The large hp premium Deeres have "Made In USA" on them while these models have "Assembled in USA." That means engines from Mexico, Cabs from US, (I believe), transmission for God knows where. I've contemplated getting a couple of those several times but haven't gotten myself to get in bed with Deere yet. I've been closer to the TV6070 except the deal fell apart last December when they raised their price by $5,000 after I test drove it. GB, There is definite emotion involved and unless ones purchased an orange AGCO tractor and saw it value demoted over night I don't know if they can relate. I think also, this has been discussed at depth but AGCO's decisions not only don't make sense they contradict themselves. |