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Looking for D19 diesel engine parts |
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HudCo ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Jan 2013 Location: Plymouth Utah Points: 3686 |
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will these fire rings work with a composite head gasket that yoy get now? or is a differant gasket needed
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NEVER green ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Location: MN. Points: 8036 |
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Yes, I use them on a 426, I pull the stock clamped ones off and lay the round ones in.
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2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50
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sampsonrepair ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 07 Jan 2025 Location: Wisconsin US Points: 41 |
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I have a source for an old stock Victor head gasket, with or without the fire rings, my choice. (Olson Gasket) Are these good? I have some reason to believe Victor was the OEM supplier, does anyone know if this is true?
Head cracks aren't leaking. It looks as if the owner wants to roll the dice on a minimal repair. Will probably look into getting some "Mack" fire rings made and going with an OEM style gasket and lots of sealer and ARP studs. |
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21112 |
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Reddish/brownish color and I'm sure they were Victor brand at .060" or .090" thick.
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Don(MI) ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 15 Sep 2009 Location: Michigan Points: 3811 |
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Not mentioned here and rare as hens teeth... I believe the Gleaner C2 combine had the D262 engine as an option.
Years ago now, had a swap done on this D19D - correct police may squawk but it's still an Allis D262 engine. ![]() |
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Galatians 5:22-24
"I got a pig at home in a pen and corn to feed him on, All I need is a pretty little girl to feed him when I'm gone!" |
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RedHeeler79 ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 09 Sep 2023 Location: NE Kansas Points: 171 |
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Couple questions… in the D19 pic above from Don(MI), there appears to be a tube directly behind the oil filter. Is that a blowby tube coming from the valve cover? (Assuming this is a later turbocharged D262). My series 1 D17D engine doesn’t have that “tube”, and relies on the oil filler/breather for a crankcase vent. Saw a D17D on YouTube with same tube in same location, but the hood wasn’t removed so couldn’t determine what the tube was for…. Second question, is there a part number for ARP head stud kit for D262? (Maybe different kits for early or late engines?)
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Allis dave ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 10 May 2012 Location: Northern IN Points: 2947 |
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There wouldn't be an ARP stuf "kit" for these unless someone happened to buy, kit, and resell them.
You'd need to measure what size studs you need and order them individually from an ARP dealer. That's what I did on my WD$%
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Gatz in NE ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Lincoln, NE Points: 1043 |
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might contact Don's Diesel in Lawrance, KS
FWIW, we used to apply Permatex Hi-Tack spray to both sides of the head gasket on many autos. My brother & I worked on an Oliver 1600 Diesel (IIRC the model #) that had a coolant leak into the oil pan. When I got new gaskets, I asked the guy for the Permatex stuff; he gave me that knowing look as if to say; “ thats the only thing that'll keep those Olivers from blowing gaskets” And it did.
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Don(MI) ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 15 Sep 2009 Location: Michigan Points: 3811 |
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Heeler- yeah I think that is the blowby tube. I think the oem engine had it but can't remember.
This tractor is in storage now but will be firing it up this spring. Special Allis plate on the block, want to ask others about this engine to understand if it's truly identical to the D19 D stock D262 engine.... or if engineers changed anything for Gleaner C2. The stock D19 D engine does not have this plate, and I'm thinking the gleaner it came from is newer than the production years of the D19. Hoping the engineers learned of the flaws and fixed them. |
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Galatians 5:22-24
"I got a pig at home in a pen and corn to feed him on, All I need is a pretty little girl to feed him when I'm gone!" |
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sampsonrepair ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 07 Jan 2025 Location: Wisconsin US Points: 41 |
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Pfouts has an ARP stud kit in stock. I ordered one just this morning. Not sure on part number, I'm assuming he assembles these kits himself.
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DiyDave ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gambrills, MD Points: 52926 |
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IIRR, I think the tube referred to is the dry air filter dirt tube. It has a rubber split stopper, that is supposed to drop dirt out, when you pinch against the direction of the slot. Again, IIRR!
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Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need!
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RedHeeler79 ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 09 Sep 2023 Location: NE Kansas Points: 171 |
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I bet you’re right, and I didn’t think about that. Earlier tractors like mine with the oil bath air cleaner(opposite side and in front) of course didn’t have that!
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21112 |
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When the engine was running at full tilt, the rubber duck bills were sucked shut. Engine off and they allowed dust collected in the steel tube to empty. Hence the term "automatic dust unloader".
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sampsonrepair ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 07 Jan 2025 Location: Wisconsin US Points: 41 |
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Things are getting ugly here and any input would be appreciated. Pushing it outside and hoping lightning hits it is starting to sound pretty good . . . . The good: I have an OEM head gasket coming and some of Mack's fire rings in hand to measure / use for a pattern. The ARP stud set is in hand. The bad: I called the machine shop after two weeks and got a line something like this: We pressure tested it at 150F and it isn't leaking. We surfaced it because it was really bad. So "I guess it's done." I asked how the valves looked, and got a vague, "They look OK." I went to pick it up, they couldn't find it at first, and asked "did someone call you to say it was done?" It was blatantly obvious the valves had never been out of it: I made them pull the one out on the spot to replace a missing keeper. I did not like what I saw. I took it to another shop to have it evaluated. He vac-tested the valves, 3 or 4 leaking. He did not like the proximity of some of the cracks to the valve seats (cracked between the seats of #1 and #6). He kept the head for further cleaning, teardown, and evaluation. He called me this AM and said this is a D17 head (I suspected that) and that the valve protrusion is all wrong (intakes should be sticking up above the head surface according to him, I have not been able to verify that). He cleaned it and said that there are two cracks visually extending into the water jacket in the intake valve areas. "If they are not leaking now, it will just be a matter of time" was his assessment. He declines to perform further repairs, and I don't blame him. So. It is a toss-up at this point between finding a different head or finding a shop capable of repairing this one properly. I'm still trying to figure out what we have here, also. My head casting number is 4514282, which does not come up on the AGCO parts site at all, but shows to be a D17 Diesel head when I Google it. My block casting number is 4514962. The "2" at the end is really weird. It looks as if the casting number was originally 4514964, and the "4" was ground off and replaced with a stamped "2." The block is painted orange with badly peeling GRAY paint over the top. The serial number that is supposed to be present on the left upper side of the block is either absent or sanded off. "7503," which could be a serial number, is stamped on the rear upper surface of the block. There is a mechanical fuel pump block-off plate on the side, but maybe they all had that. There is what might be a date code on the left rear of the block, 12 25 66, as near as I can make out. Injection pump 4514017 comes back as a D19 pump. Pistons are flat-topped, no valve recesses. One is stamped "224-1476," which seems to be an old Clevite number; another is stamped "11G," and the rest are unmarked. Bore and stroke confirm the engine is definitely a 262. What do you knowledgeable ones make of this valve head protrusion spec? My D19 book says "valve to surface of head . . . . minus .016 - .043. I'm guessing both of these numbers are negative, can't imagine a specification window of .059" with the valves being allowed to stand .043" above the head surface. What I measured was around (-.035"). I can't find D17 D262 specifications. Machinist is coming up with a specification for exhaust valve height as well, which doesn't appear in any of my manuals. I'm just asking, since at some point, some machinist, somewhere, is going to have to set these valve heights, and I am probably going to need to tell him what I want them set at. If I need to find a different head, what casting number(s) am I looking for? Sorry for the long, long post. I really liKe this forum, lots of helpful people and just in general a friendly community. SAMPSON REPAIR
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21112 |
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I'll try and look in my service manuals tonite and find those valve specs for you.
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sampsonrepair ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 07 Jan 2025 Location: Wisconsin US Points: 41 |
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Thx.
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Alex09(WI) ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 15 Mar 2012 Location: CECIL WI Points: 1713 |
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You can look at the "Technical Specs" page on our website. Click on the D17 Diesel tractor and you will see the engine specs.
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www.awtractor.com
A&W TRACTOR 920-598-1287 KEEPING ALLIS-CHALMERS IN THE FIELDS THROUGH THE 21ST CENTURY |
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sampsonrepair ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 07 Jan 2025 Location: Wisconsin US Points: 41 |
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Great resource, who would have thought? I have a gasket coming from you folks. So if someone sets these intake valves .031" above the cylinder head surface, are the valves going to hit the pistons? Or is a trial assembly necessary to determine that? I have a cheap head gasket here in my gasket set, and have thought all along that it may be required for a trial assembly.
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RedHeeler79 ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 09 Sep 2023 Location: NE Kansas Points: 171 |
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You’d have to measure your piston protrusions to know what you can get away with. I i remember correctly, the comprssed gasket thickness is .055”, and max allowed piston protrusion is .030”. So that would be an issue if the valves protrude .031…. You want more piston protrusion to help with starting
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21112 |
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Well, my official service books from Allis-Chalmers are almost as bad as IT books. In my D-19 manual, the intake valves are to be RECESSED .016" to .043", with .016" giving you the best cold starting. The D-17 manual, which doesn't specify what age or series, says .015" to .031" above the head surface. And finally the D-15 manual says NOTHING about valve recession or protrusion. I would expect a series 3 and 4 D-17 diesel to be the latest head casting from the factory. The latest cylinder head castings required different (smaller diameter) injector tips over the early castings. I would imagine you could tell which head you have (recession or protrusion) by looking at the cylinder heads surface and the way it was machined.
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sampsonrepair ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 07 Jan 2025 Location: Wisconsin US Points: 41 |
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So I learned late this afternoon that this engine (at least the bottom half) is a combine engine. Not surprising. Seems the guy's uncle had some history on it. C, C2? Were these used in others?
Dr., would you mind elaborating identifying the style of head by how it is machined? I'm probably just having a dense moment. Head castings, even cores, appear virtually non - existent. I found an outfit in Blaine, MN that says they can repair it, and they sound knowledgeable. $2400. The customer has some decisions to make at this point. |
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21112 |
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I think you'll figure it out when you look at the installed intake valve. If it already is recessed at more than .016", you have recessed valves. If there is any sign of the valve head being above flush with the head surface it is a protruding design. I think that style head probably required the valve relief to be cut in the pistons top. I know sooo little about these particular engines (and that's just fine) because in my territory, they were few and far between. They came out in 1961-62 and by 1975 when I began my career, many if not most were already junked out for their diesel engine issues. The gas tractors were still going strong. There's always those who touted how "so and so" had one for years and never had any troubles. To that I say, it's a tractor that was never used hard (as the gas tractors were) or got hooked to a plow or disc much. The blocks were unable to hold the sleeves up. The radiator capacity and fan belt were inadequate on warm days, so much so that they came out with an updated temp gauge that made the "green" band go 10-12 degrees higher AND removed any numbers from the gauge itself. "If it isn't vomiting coolant from the overflow hose, it ain't really hot" is what I was told by a company rep. many decades ago. And then there is the issue of heads cracking and blown head gaskets. A recipe for constant trouble when used hard.
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sampsonrepair ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 07 Jan 2025 Location: Wisconsin US Points: 41 |
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These valves are definitely recessed. To me it would stand to reason that protruding valves would require the valve relief in the pistons, but who knows. It started easily enough, surprisingly, even at cold temperatures with no block heater, so at this point I'm thinking that if we repair the head, we will have it machined to D19 specifications. And if we don't, it will most likely leave in pieces. I tried to warn him ahead of time that if we pulled the head, things could get ugly. And they have. Things have gotten really, really ugly.
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sampsonrepair ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 07 Jan 2025 Location: Wisconsin US Points: 41 |
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Update. The owner wants to fix everything, and fix it right. The past three weeks have involved teardown, evaluation, cleaning, and parts sourcing. The bottom end looks wonderful, standard bearings, crank only required polishing, no grinding. My machinist's comment when I showed him the pistons was, "These are USED pistons??" Now the really ugly. Diesel cast just called me and said the head on this is unrepairable. They said they have no success repairing cracks in the energy cell area. I asked about just leaving those cracks alone, since everyone says they are non-critical, and he said that is not an option because they will get worse when they heat it to repair it. It seems strange that whoever I talked to when I initially called acted extremely knowledgeable about these heads and sounded as if $2400 would net me a head as good as new. So now I am looking for a serviceable head. Any and all leads would be appreciated.
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Model 70 ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 09 Jan 2021 Location: Minnesota Points: 151 |
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Kugler salvage inc. Erhard Mn. (218)736-6298. Owners name is Joel.
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sampsonrepair ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 07 Jan 2025 Location: Wisconsin US Points: 41 |
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Negative. Thanks!
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Gatz in NE ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Lincoln, NE Points: 1043 |
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slim chance but worth a try
Northeast Tractor Parts Lyons NE 800 747 2071
Edited by Gatz in NE - 07 Mar 2025 at 3:23pm |
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sampsonrepair ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 07 Jan 2025 Location: Wisconsin US Points: 41 |
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If I owned one of these old relics and wanted to keep it running, it would get a 226 gas motor and I would eat the power loss. Unfortunately, I don't think this option would net my customer a usable tractor for what he wants to be able to do with it (round baler).
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Model 70 ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 09 Jan 2021 Location: Minnesota Points: 151 |
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How about biewers tractor salvage in barnsville Mn they had a D19 diesel last fall when I was there.
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Model 70 ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 09 Jan 2021 Location: Minnesota Points: 151 |
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262 gas. Plenty of power. I pull a round baler with one of mine
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