This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity.
The Forum Parts and Services Unofficial Allis Store Tractor Shows Serial Numbers History
Forum Home Forum Home > Allis Chalmers > Farm Equipment
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Hard starting 7010

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
Message
SteveM C/IL View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Shelbyville IL
Points: 8239
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2024 at 9:10pm
It's a swedge tool. Swedges the sleeve in the head at injector hole. I think they use an o-ring on the upper end.
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Kevin in WA View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Location: Lynden, WA
Points: 610
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kevin in WA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2024 at 9:50pm
Make sure the injectors are in correctly, the return line must be on the valve cover side, they start and run like crap if they are in 1/2 turn off.
Back to Top
farmboycitygirl View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Location: 66528
Points: 115
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farmboycitygirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2024 at 6:06pm
Here is what i found.

The tractor was at 19 degrees btdc.  I adjusted the timing to 16 degrees btdc the tractor is in the shop, the temp in the shop is approximately 55 degrees.  

Since we had to take the site plate off it took a little bit to get the fuel back to the injection pump.  

It cranked about 15 seconds and tried to fire.  Stopped cranking let the fuel pump run for a couple of minutes to make sure air was out of the lines.  We started cranking again and hit the ether button, the tractor started right up.  Not too bad for starting in 50 degree shop.  We took it out to pick up a calf in the calf crate (hooked to the three point) and it ran great.  

Just for the heck of it I started the 7045, it started with no ether or block heater.  Our 190xt needed about 90 seconds of manifold heater but it started.  Didn't try the 180 or 185.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and help! 
Back to Top
DrAllis View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 20487
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2024 at 7:04pm
Please try to start it like this and I think you'll possibly see more improvement. Leave the throttle at dead slow idle. Leave the fuel knob IN. Turn on the key and start cranking the engine over for 5 seconds and then slowly pull out on the fuel knob.
Back to Top
farmboycitygirl View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Location: 66528
Points: 115
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farmboycitygirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2024 at 7:19pm
will do - thanks for the help
Back to Top
SteveM C/IL View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Shelbyville IL
Points: 8239
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2024 at 10:03pm
I always like to know why.....in this case I believe that slow introduction of fuel spray takes less heat out of the compressed air to help it ignite.  Correct?
Back to Top
DrAllis View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 20487
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 2:02am
The fuel off cranking makes heat, yes. The throttle at a dead idle keeps timing retarded as much as possible and fuel delivery minimal to start the fire burning instead of drowning it. Slow fuel turn on helps keep whatever heat there is building and not snuff it out.  AmBach pumps (8030 and up) like full throttle setttings for best starts when cold. Stanadyne not so much.  All diesel engines benefit from a little time with the block heater plugged in, even if it's only for 30 minutes. I'd also think a heavy dose of "cetane booster" in your winter tank of fuel would help get the fire started easier too. I'll bet one or two tractor tanks of fuel gets most people thru the winter ???

Edited by DrAllis - 05 Jan 2024 at 6:36am
Back to Top
Lynn Marshall View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Dana, Iowa
Points: 2283
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lynn Marshall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 7:23am
An intake manifold air heater, like the 190 has,could be added to the tractor. It would certainly help starting issues on relatively cool temperatures.
Back to Top
im4racin View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 12 Jun 2017
Location: Garrison ND
Points: 933
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote im4racin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 6:15pm
I don’t think starting aids are something that needs to be added for 60 degrees
Back to Top
DrAllis View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 20487
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 6:54pm
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. A quote from a D-21 Owners manual on page 20. Same wording is also in a 1969 One-Eighty book:  In warm temperatures ABOVE 60 degrees, the engine should start after a short cranking period. If it does not start after 10 seconds of cranking, wait a minute or two before trying again to prevent overheating of the starting motor. If the engine doesn't start after 3 attempts, the cause should be determined. In cooler temperatures BELOW 60 degrees, use of the manifold air heater will aid in the starting. The air heater is used to warm the air in the intake manifold prior to cranking the engine. Operate the air heater for 45 seconds and then crank the engine to start. If it doesn't start, you may need to do this procedure again. An optional ether start system is available for quick starts in all temperatures.     Now, while in this case (a 7020) I tend to agree with you, there are some facts that need to be understood.    #1. you can own three identical tractors and all three of them may COLD start equally, or all three might be different. #2. Enjoy how a new diesel tractor starts when cold. It's the best it will ever be. From the first 100 hrs on, it is a very slow descent to harder and harder cold starting, as the cranking compression of the engine gets to be less and less. They still run fine when started, but it's the initial cold start heat creation to burn the fuel that decreases. Just a fact of diesel engine life. An engine with 350 psi cranking compression will NOT start like one with 390 psi of compression.  #3.  An engine with 16 to 1 compression will always start better than a 15 to 1 compression engine. A 7020 is 15 to 1. A 6080 is 14 to 1 on early models. Modern engines are 17 to 1 or even more.   #4. Grinding valves and seats always makes these engines start harder because the valves are sunk into the head deeper making cranking compression lower. New valves and seats set to the minimum valve recession is thee best for cold starts.   #5. Been my experience that injectors set at lower specs pressures start better when cold. Like 3400 psi instead of 3850 psi as an example.   6. Some people just don't like to use the block heater or ether and prefer to grind away on the starter.       So, the long and short of it is, not all engines start like we think they should and there are MANY reasons why this is.

Edited by DrAllis - 06 Jan 2024 at 7:12am
Back to Top
farmboycitygirl View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Location: 66528
Points: 115
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farmboycitygirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2024 at 2:07pm
DrAllis,

We tried your suggested way to start and it really improved how fast the tractor started.  Thank you

"Please try to start it like this and I think you'll possibly see more improvement. Leave the throttle at dead slow idle. Leave the fuel knob IN. Turn on the key and start cranking the engine over for 5 seconds and then slowly pull out on the fuel knob."
Back to Top
DrAllis View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 20487
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2024 at 5:26pm
Glad to hear you're getting along better. Winter time is tough on cold starts for sure.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.080 seconds.


Help Support the
Unofficial Allis Forum