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Gonna give it a "GO" on here,,,,, |
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desertjoe ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13049 |
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Howdy Gents,,,I bought a complete Big Block Chevy engine with the attached Allison transmission for a great price last week. Was told the purchasers drove the bus to their shop and engine and trans were pulled recently from a 1986 International Bluebird Bus. The engine was listed as a 454 BBC but I got my doubts now. I have not had any luck verifying the engine size based on the number on the bellhousing flange. The number is 10237288 and number is clear!! A couple of dudes on the FB MarketPlace have told me it is most likely a 366 Tall Deck with the Allison tranny....!!! CHIT, CHIT! Altho, I had no plans to race the 55 Chevy I was gonna shoehorn it into, I DID want a 454 or even a 427,,,,!! I mean,,,who wants a 366,,,!! ![]() Here is where I am ATPIT,, I want to start this beast to see what shape it really is in AND be able to sell it. The Lady told me they DROVE it from auction to their shop and engine ran fine, no miss, no smoke and no strange noises. Engine oil looks good., and whole engine is very clean. The Intake is a Throttle Body and figured I could get it to start and run with starting fluid and some Boy Scout Water.. The holdup is getting the distributor to fire the plugs. The distributor is kinda small in diameter but don't ask me which one it is. There are TWO female plugs on the side,,, One is a two wire that goes to the coil still mounted on engine. The other is a 4 wire connector. I've tried to google "how to Hot Wire" the distributor but them words ain't no good for getting info.,,,,! Anyone got a clue ???
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Ed (Ont) ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 Nov 2009 Location: New Lowell, Ont Points: 1084 |
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Go old school. Put on intake and carb and HEI distributor. One live wire wire to distributor and you are good to go.
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im4racin ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Jun 2017 Location: Garrison ND Points: 673 |
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Coil should have 2 connectors. One to dist and the other is a power input and tach output
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 73871 |
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Joe, i google "4 pin connector on chevy distributor" and got this ... dont know that it will help, but might.... apparently the 4 pin plug goes to a computer than checks for spark knock, timing, etc...... your trying to bypass that... and the two pin plug might be the POWER ? ( pink wire he talks about ??)
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That's it. Of course you will need to adjust the timing when you get it running. This mod converts your truck back to a regular HEI ignition, without all the electronic controls. You will have to monitor your spark knock yourself since you won't have the ESC to do it for you. If you have ever had an older vehicle you know how to do this anyway, why do you need the ESC to do it for you? Edited by steve(ill) - 22 Jan 2023 at 9:19pm |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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desertjoe ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13049 |
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Hey STEVE,,, I KNEW YOU WOULD FIND WHAT I NEEDED,,,!!!! I can't wait for daylight to gp put a spark in the bruiser,,,,Ummmm,,,,366 lead sled,,,, ![]() That guy knows what he's talking about as those are the wire colors, cause I just come back from out there,,and it is FRIGGING COLD out there and I was in my jammies,,,!!! Many THANKS, Steve. ![]() You just gotta KNOW what words to use for your searches,,,and "Hot Wire" dang sure ain't one of them,,,,,
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DMiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 27290 |
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May not start DJ, as ECM may not fire if does not see fuel rail pressure to the TBI unit. These use a Higher Value pressure pump In Tank to develop around 20-30psi that may have line sensor to trigger for ignition to even function.
Several things here affect timing also, will have at least one if not two O2 sensors, will have atmospheric pressure sensor and possibly a Mass Air Flow intake air sensor that if are not there and not connected will likely not start either. EC Engines are not typical of the old style electronic ignition circuits and being School Bus may be even worse.
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fixer1958 ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Feb 2010 Location: kansas Points: 2436 |
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TBI fuel pressure spec is 10-13. They didn't go higher till port injection.
I don't think they went TBI in 86. May be a later model. Bigger trucks usually transitioned a few years later. May be wrong. Seems that is what I remember. I believe they may have just kept the crank signal through the distributor instead of a crankshaft sensor.
Edited by fixer1958 - 23 Jan 2023 at 7:30am |
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desertjoe ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13049 |
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Well, chit,,I'm gonna put a spark in this sob some how,,,, ![]() Hoping Steve's link idea does work tho,,,,
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Thad in AR. ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arkansas Points: 9126 |
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Numbers I looked up suggested a 1996 427 tall
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fixer1958 ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Feb 2010 Location: kansas Points: 2436 |
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Could be from a brief check
10237299...427T......96-up...4-bolt, Gen.VI, 7.0L, truck
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DMiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 27290 |
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Gen VI will NOT Accept a HEI Distributor. Intake from a 454 will not bolt on a Tall Block without Spacers.
Gen VI became the Go To engine for 6&7000 series, they were built to NOT accept HEI so could NOT bypass Emissions mechanisms. Edited by DMiller - 23 Jan 2023 at 12:52pm |
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desertjoe ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13049 |
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well, now, Thad,,that would suit me just fine,,,,LOTS of that Mystyke involved with a 427 between the fenderwells of Ole Red,,,,,If it IS a real 427, regerdless if a regular or a tall deck, then I would go ahead and buy an after market intake and an after market distributor. The lady I bought it from told me her husband DROVE it from auction yard to their shop and engine ran great with no issues and is why he had it removed from Bus to use "As IS" on his Jeep,,,but I still want to hear it run,before spending $500 for an intake and distributor,,,,,?
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desertjoe ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13049 |
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Hey Fixer,,the bellhousing number is 10237288,,,,. She also gave me the computor they removed from the bus and it states engine was a 7.0... I knew a 7.4 IS a 454,,so the 7.0 is a 427,,?? ( fingers crossed)
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bemer848 ![]() Bronze Level Access ![]() Joined: 29 Sep 2013 Location: southern IL Points: 77 |
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1 liter eguals 61 cubic inch. 7x61 = 427
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desertjoe ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13049 |
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Hey Bemer, thanks for that formula and just to do one other, I tried a 5.7 which is suppossed to be a 350 and comes out to 347.7,,,wth,,,??
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fixer1958 ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Feb 2010 Location: kansas Points: 2436 |
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It's looking to be a 427.
You going to be strutting around like a rooster now at your latest find.
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desertjoe ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13049 |
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Hey Fixer,,,I'm sure liking your EXCELLENT vocabulary and choice of words there My Frriend,,,,,!!!
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DMiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 27290 |
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This is Not your standard 427 Joe, this is a Gen VI, should be a firing order on the Intake or a Decal. One series of Gen VI uses 18726543, NOT the old standard 18436572. The engine will not accept a HEI distributor, cannot without major mods be made to use standard Ignition or Fuel components. Emissions strikes again.
If do not have a MAP, BARO pres, all the accorded Emissions sensors all will get is trouble codes and no fire.
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SteveM C/IL ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 7666 |
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Pretty sure you have an irredeemable chunk of cast there. Short of changing everything inside you can't have a hot rod. I bet it's like my 95 7.4 3/4 ton pickup. Rockers won't accept much cam. Cam brg bores won't accept big lift lobes. Likely small valves too. Not much to work with unless you got deep pockets. Hope you got it cheap.
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desertjoe ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13049 |
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Well, me being an eternal Optimist,I'm going with the link Steve sent me as what I really need to do ATPIT is to get the engine to fire via the procedure that dude sent to Steve. I checked the wiring harness that was with the engine and the 4 wires at dist are same color as he states including the 2 wire harness going to the coil. Then just spray some Boy Scout Water in the Throttle Body to keep it running long enough to verify oil pressure, ect, ect and then clean it and the BIG old Allison trans up and sell it,,,,OR,,OR,,if it will fire with that dude's mods to distributor, then I would look at an aftermarket intake specificly made for the Tall deck BBC, throw a Holly 4 barrel on that and let er rip,,,,A dude on one of the groups on Marketplace says lots of tall deck BBC's are alive and running with those mods,,,SO,,I got my fingers crossed,,,,
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desertjoe ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13049 |
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An Update,,(of sorts) Well, I didn't get very far with the 427 TALL DECK as The frigging starter bendix was bad order and would not spin the engine,,,AND,,,AND,,when I go to Oreillys and Autozone,,,them dudes don't even know what a bendix is even tho I gots one in my hand,,!!! The guy at autozone finally gives up and sends me to Napa. Well, Napa does have an ole timer ,,but he cannot find the correct bendix either,,, SO,,I go home to my "Shameless Get Out Of Jail Box" and Lo&Behold I locate a potential spare!! Rig up my booster cables and ,,,,YES! it works,,,,,! Install it on Bruiser and,,,,AND,,,,the sob will not fire the plugs!! WTF?? check the instructions several times but no go. Back to the internet and am lucky to find yet another "Maybe" from a dude on a Farm Forum that discovered the REAL ISSUE as to why a HEI cannot be used on the TALL DECK engines. It is the HEI distributor shaft to the OIL PUMP length that does NOT engage the oil pump shaft to power the oil pump in a TALL DECK engine!! Who Knew!! He suggests two methods to get around the issue and requires you to remove the oil pan and replace the oil pump AND the correct oil pump shaft with the correct MELLING parts,,,,even supplies the Melling PNs,,,is this GREAT or what?? Fixing to remove that big Allison tranny and open this Bruiser UP,,,,,! Wish me luck,,,,, Anyone got an aluminum carb type manifold for the tall decks,,?
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desertjoe ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13049 |
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Hey DMiller, I kept thinking about something you said,,so I checked the firing order on the big bruiser and it is the old style 18436572 FO. I also went ahead and ran a compression check and got some good results. cyls 1357 were 120, 110, 100, and 120. Cyls 2468 were 120, 120, 100 and 110. Decent numbers that would make a decent driver as is,,gonna shoot some lube in cyls for funs while I figure how to get it to fire,,,,
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