Shops, Barns, Varmints, and Trucks - Gonna give it a "GO" on here,,,,,

Gonna give it a "GO" on here,,,,,

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Topic: Gonna give it a "GO" on here,,,,,

Posted By: desertjoe
Subject: Gonna give it a "GO" on here,,,,,
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2023 at 7:13pm

Howdy Gents,,,I bought a complete Big Block Chevy engine with the attached Allison transmission for a great price last week. Was told the purchasers drove the bus to their shop and engine and trans were pulled recently from a 1986 International Bluebird Bus. The engine was listed as a 454 BBC but I got my doubts now. I have not had any luck verifying the engine size based on the number on the bellhousing flange. The number is 10237288 and number is clear!! A couple of dudes on the FB MarketPlace have told me it is most likely a 366 Tall Deck with the Allison tranny....!!! CHIT, CHIT! Altho, I had no plans to race the 55 Chevy I was gonna shoehorn it into, I DID want a 454 or even a 427,,,,!! I mean,,,who wants a 366,,,!! LOL

Here is where I am ATPIT,, I want to start this beast to see what shape it really is in AND be able to sell it. The Lady told me they DROVE it from auction to their shop and engine ran fine, no miss, no smoke and no strange noises. Engine oil looks good., and whole engine is very clean. The Intake is a Throttle Body and figured I could get it to start and run with starting fluid and some Boy Scout Water.. The holdup is getting the distributor to fire the plugs. The distributor is kinda small in diameter but don't ask me which one it is. There are TWO female plugs on the side,,, One is a two wire that goes to the coil still mounted on engine. The other is a 4 wire connector. I've tried to google "how to Hot Wire" the distributor but them words ain't no good for getting info.,,,,!

Anyone got a clue ???

Replies:

Posted By: Ed (Ont)
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2023 at 7:26pm

Go old school. Put on intake and carb and HEI distributor. One live wire wire to distributor and you are good to go.

Posted By: im4racin
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2023 at 8:49pm

Coil should have 2 connectors. One to dist and the other is a power input and tach output

Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2023 at 9:17pm

Joe, i google "4 pin connector on chevy distributor" and got this ... dont know that it will help, but might.... apparently the 4 pin plug goes to a computer than checks for spark knock, timing, etc...... your trying to bypass that... and the two pin plug might be the POWER ? ( pink wire he talks about ??)

----------------

GOOGLE---

I had a problem with my 86 C20 305-H engine. It could start and run fine and just suddenly die out, sometimes start right back up or take a couple hours to get restarted. After several weeks of this nonsense (and getting very good at getting those half turn dist. cap latches off), I did some checking. There is a power feed to the spark control unit under the dash that comes off of the pink (hot) wire to the distributor. The pink wire clips into the connector for the feed, which in turn clips into the dist. cap. What had happened was the feed for the Spark Control was shorting out somewhere, killing the spark. I talked to some Chevy mechanics at my dealer about this and they told me how to bypass the spark control computer and keep the original distributor, something they claim is done quite often.

First thing to do is unhook the spark control computer lead from the pink wire and hook the pink wire directly to the dist. cap. Make sure you plug it into the cap at the BAT terminal. The second thing is to locate the 4 wire connector that feeds into the ignition module. There's a brown (D), green (C), white (B), and black (A) wire there. The letters in () are on the black clip that the wires come out of. You cut the green (C) and black (A) wires between this clip and where they go into the distributor. Then all you need to do is solder the 2 cut leads from the dist/ignition module together, i.e. the green and black ones, (make sure to tape the exposed wires) and now your HEI distributor will function just as a pre ESC model does. I did this and it has been running fine for well over a year now.

Dan

Note: http://www.73-87.com/7387garage/drivetrain/escrepl/plug1.jpg" rel="nofollow - Here is a photo I made of the plug which goes to the ESC control and feeds the ignition, which Dan mentioned above. I labeled the wires which need to be cut and showed which wires are A, B, C and D.

That's it. Of course you will need to adjust the timing when you get it running. This mod converts your truck back to a regular HEI ignition, without all the electronic controls. You will have to monitor your spark knock yourself since you won't have the ESC to do it for you. If you have ever had an older vehicle you know how to do this anyway, why do you need the ESC to do it for you?

-------------
Like them all, but love the "B"s.

Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2023 at 10:38pm

Hey STEVE,,, I KNEW YOU WOULD FIND WHAT I NEEDED,,,!!!! I can't wait for daylight to gp put a spark in the bruiser,,,,Ummmm,,,,366 lead sled,,,, LOL

That guy knows what he's talking about as those are the wire colors, cause I just come back from out there,,and it is FRIGGING COLD out there and I was in my jammies,,,!!!

Many THANKS, Steve. Clap

You just gotta KNOW what words to use for your searches,,,and "Hot Wire" dang sure ain't one of them,,,,, Wink

Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2023 at 6:30am

May not start DJ, as ECM may not fire if does not see fuel rail pressure to the TBI unit. These use a Higher Value pressure pump In Tank to develop around 20-30psi that may have line sensor to trigger for ignition to even function.

Several things here affect timing also, will have at least one if not two O2 sensors, will have atmospheric pressure sensor and possibly a Mass Air Flow intake air sensor that if are not there and not connected will likely not start either. EC Engines are not typical of the old style electronic ignition circuits and being School Bus may be even worse.

Posted By: fixer1958
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2023 at 7:28am

TBI fuel pressure spec is 10-13. They didn't go higher till port injection.

I don't think they went TBI in 86. May be a later model. Bigger trucks usually transitioned a few years later. May be wrong. Seems that is what I remember.

I believe they may have just kept the crank signal through the distributor instead of a crankshaft sensor.

Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2023 at 8:27am

Well, chit,,I'm gonna put a spark in this sob some how,,,, Wink

But seeing as how this IS a Tall Deck engine,,,,did GM make a regular HEI distributor that will fit in the TALL DECK block,,or what modification would have to be done to block to work? WAIT A MINUTE,,,,I do have a regular deck cast iron intake manifold that had a Quadra Jet carb that DID come off a 454,,,wou think it would fit the Tall Deck block?

Hoping Steve's link idea does work tho,,,,

Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2023 at 8:32am

Numbers I looked up suggested a 1996 427 tall

Posted By: fixer1958
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2023 at 8:44am

Could be from a brief check

10237299...427T......96-up...4-bolt, Gen.VI, 7.0L, truck

Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2023 at 12:51pm

Gen VI will NOT Accept a HEI Distributor. Intake from a 454 will not bolt on a Tall Block without Spacers.

Gen VI became the Go To engine for 6&7000 series, they were built to NOT accept HEI so could NOT bypass Emissions mechanisms.

Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2023 at 4:45pm

Thad in AR. wrote:

Numbers I looked up suggested a 1996 427 tall

well, now, Thad,,that would suit me just fine,,,,LOTS of that Mystyke involved with a 427 between the fenderwells of Ole Red,,,,,If it IS a real 427, regerdless if a regular or a tall deck, then I would go ahead and buy an after market intake and an after market distributor.

The lady I bought it from told me her husband DROVE it from auction yard to their shop and engine ran great with no issues and is why he had it removed from Bus to use "As IS" on his Jeep,,,but I still want to hear it run,before spending $500 for an intake and distributor,,,,,?

Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2023 at 4:54pm

fixer1958 wrote:

Could be from a brief check

10237299...427T......96-up...4-bolt, Gen.VI, 7.0L, truck

Hey Fixer,,the bellhousing number is 10237288,,,,. She also gave me the computor they removed from the bus and it states engine was a 7.0... I knew a 7.4 IS a 454,,so the 7.0 is a 427,,?? ( fingers crossed)

Posted By: bemer848
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2023 at 5:07pm

1 liter eguals 61 cubic inch. 7x61 = 427

Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2023 at 7:45pm

Hey Bemer, thanks for that formula and just to do one other, I tried a 5.7 which is suppossed to be a 350 and comes out to 347.7,,,wth,,,?? LOL

Posted By: fixer1958
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2023 at 6:05am

It's looking to be a 427.

You going to be strutting around like a rooster now at your latest find.

Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2023 at 7:37am

fixer1958 wrote:

It's looking to be a 427.

You going to be strutting around like a rooster now at your latest find.

Hey Fixer,,,I'm sure liking your EXCELLENT vocabulary and choice of words there My Frriend,,,,,!!! Clap

Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2023 at 5:44pm

This is Not your standard 427 Joe, this is a Gen VI, should be a firing order on the Intake or a Decal. One series of Gen VI uses 18726543, NOT the old standard 18436572. The engine will not accept a HEI distributor, cannot without major mods be made to use standard Ignition or Fuel components. Emissions strikes again.

If do not have a MAP, BARO pres, all the accorded Emissions sensors all will get is trouble codes and no fire.

Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2023 at 10:24pm

Pretty sure you have an irredeemable chunk of cast there. Short of changing everything inside you can't have a hot rod. I bet it's like my 95 7.4 3/4 ton pickup. Rockers won't accept much cam. Cam brg bores won't accept big lift lobes. Likely small valves too. Not much to work with unless you got deep pockets. Hope you got it cheap.

Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2023 at 10:48pm

Well, me being an eternal Optimist,I'm going with the link Steve sent me as what I really need to do ATPIT is to get the engine to fire via the procedure that dude sent to Steve. I checked the wiring harness that was with the engine and the 4 wires at dist are same color as he states including the 2 wire harness going to the coil. Then just spray some Boy Scout Water in the Throttle Body to keep it running long enough to verify oil pressure, ect, ect and then clean it and the BIG old Allison trans up and sell it,,,,OR,,OR,,if it will fire with that dude's mods to distributor, then I would look at an aftermarket intake specificly made for the Tall deck BBC, throw a Holly 4 barrel on that and let er rip,,,,A dude on one of the groups on Marketplace says lots of tall deck BBC's are alive and running with those mods,,,SO,,I got my fingers crossed,,,, Clap

Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2023 at 5:43am

An Update,,(of sorts)

Well, I didn't get very far with the 427 TALL DECK as The frigging starter bendix was bad order and would not spin the engine,,,AND,,,AND,,when I go to Oreillys and Autozone,,,them dudes don't even know what a bendix is even tho I gots one in my hand,,!!! The guy at autozone finally gives up and sends me to Napa. Well, Napa does have an ole timer ,,but he cannot find the correct bendix either,,, SO,,I go home to my "Shameless Get Out Of Jail Box" and Lo&Behold I locate a potential spare!! Rig up my booster cables and ,,,,YES! it works,,,,,!

Install it on Bruiser and,,,,AND,,,,the sob will not fire the plugs!! WTF?? check the instructions several times but no go. Back to the internet and am lucky to find yet another "Maybe" from a dude on a Farm Forum that discovered the REAL ISSUE as to why a HEI cannot be used on the TALL DECK engines. It is the HEI distributor shaft to the OIL PUMP length that does NOT engage the oil pump shaft to power the oil pump in a TALL DECK engine!! Who Knew!! He suggests two methods to get around the issue and requires you to remove the oil pan and replace the oil pump AND the correct oil pump shaft with the correct MELLING parts,,,,even supplies the Melling PNs,,,is this GREAT or what??

Fixing to remove that big Allison tranny and open this Bruiser UP,,,,,! Wish me luck,,,,,

Anyone got an aluminum carb type manifold for the tall decks,,?

Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2023 at 7:34am

Hey DMiller, I kept thinking about something you said,,so I checked the firing order on the big bruiser and it is the old style 18436572 FO. I also went ahead and ran a compression check and got some good results. cyls 1357 were 120, 110, 100, and 120. Cyls 2468 were 120, 120, 100 and 110. Decent numbers that would make a decent driver as is,,gonna shoot some lube in cyls for funs while I figure how to get it to fire,,,,