This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity. | ||||||
The Forum | Parts and Services | Unofficial Allis Store | Tractor Shows | Serial Numbers | History |
Pictures from the Agco Tractor Plant in France |
Post Reply | Page 123 4> |
Author | |
ncrc5315
Silver Level Joined: 10 Sep 2010 Location: Nebraska Points: 68 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 10:02pm |
Spud, you are absolutely right, it is the same tractor no matter what the color of the hood, and it was a very difficult decision to switch to CaseIh because I really liked the CVT transmission. But here is why I did it. I had heard rumors of agco dropping the orange paint in July of 2009, I asked the district rep if they was any truth to this. I was told that agco was very committed to the agco tractor line. So I traded tractors. Less then six months later, the agco line is being dropped. Neither one of my local agco dealers have sold a high horse power MF. By agco's own admission the MF line is not nearly as strong as the agco line in the midwest. (Where they are strong is outside of the midwest, meaning small tractors, larger profit per unit). So how long till the Gleaner name is dropped? If you noticed, the Super Sevens didn't get the new unloading auger, or new poly sides to match the A series.
My point in all of this is this. agco created uncertainty and doubt as to if they are interested in the midwest market at all. I for one was not going to wait around, and see if the MF's have any resale value. My banker, has already suggested that I lower my machinery value by 10-12%, that is a pretty big hit on the balance sheet, not going to risk that again.
|
|
Sponsored Links | |
ScottinSWIL
Silver Level Joined: 30 Oct 2009 Location: Randolph Co. IL Points: 118 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Unit3-------------That is another good idea. Too bad the Agco big shots didn't listen to some people with some common sense before running off some customers. I guess common sense and dollars and cents don't always go together.
|
|
Unit3
Orange Level Joined: 17 Oct 2009 Location: NC Iowa Points: 5503 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I wouldn't mind if they painted them all silver to match my Gleaner and then sell different side hood color kits that would light up the name and size when the light get switched on. You could buy a used tractor with green Oliver badges and swop them out of orange AC's.
|
|
ScottinSWIL
Silver Level Joined: 30 Oct 2009 Location: Randolph Co. IL Points: 118 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
It seems more fitting if they could have used their brand name "Agco" for the NA market. I prefer orange but would have been more accepting to a red Agco as opposed to a MF name. It is an exciting time now with high grain prices the last couple of years and the changing technology. Why did they decide to come out with a new series that was supposedly designed with farmers ideas and then immediaely s*** can it ? Were these farmers all Eureopean or what? For me it just comes down to that MF badge more than the hood color. It is frustrating that they can specialize their product line for certain parts of the world but are now telling us NA customers that ve vill love Massey. I'm just glad for now they haven't screwed up the Gleaner line. It is true that this is just another point in Ag history that is tough to follow for some of us. CaseIH and NH though, have been smart enough so far to keep the red and blue fans happy. I'm sure it would be tough for one side or the other to change also.
|
|
Dave in il
Orange Level Joined: 22 Sep 2009 Location: Manville Il Points: 1748 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Nothing lasts forever, CaseIH is now CNH. Someday they may be just Fiat. If you added up all the brand names Fiat controls around the world I belive they may be they largest tractor company in the world.
When AGCO ceases to exist and the company is called Massey Fergusen (sp?) they will rewrite history and AGCO, AC, White, Oliver, MM and eventually most of the other euro brands they currently sell will become "lesser known classics" from "failed" companies and the Massey history will begin with the original Massey and go "seamlessly" into the future. The victors always write history.
|
|
redline
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Collins, IA Points: 1013 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
What are they doing with a Gleaner there? Don't they realize that Laverda is now one of their core brands?
Kinda surprised to see this topic bumped to the top of the heap again......... Edited by redline - 16 Nov 2010 at 4:48pm |
|
If it weren't for the last minute, I wouldn't get anything done!
|
|
BiG210
Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: ohio Points: 412 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I see a green gleaner in the backround far right.
|
|
black_no_3
Bronze Level Joined: 16 Nov 2010 Location: Big Bend WI Points: 2 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Also, I'm not really sure the reason the company went under had to do with management decisions. I think some of the new product ventures of the late 70's had an effect, but the bottom line was - the economy was the worst in 50 years back in the late 70's, early 80's. When you got 20+% prime rates and you're selling huge farm equipment, farmers couldn't afford to upgrade unless they had cash. Your average farmer didn't have the type of cash flow to spend on an 8550 - they took out loans. No farmer in their right mind would pony up several tens of thousands for a new tractor at 20+%. It was a crazy time in our country. The AC tractor division folded because the market had shrunk to the point where one of the major players alone could have support the volume demand of the entire market! That is a fact. At one point AC was making 60 tractors a day. Breakeven was something like 25 units, and in the end, there wasn't sufficient market demand to make those volumes. People always want to blame management, but trust me, management tried to negotiate new reduced wage and benefit contracts with the union, but the union leaders wouldn't budge. They (union) thought management was bluffing right up until the end. Those union guys made ridiculous wages for the times, and I'm not just talking hourly wage, I'm talking benefits. Those legacy costs destroyed the cost structure of the company to be competitive. Everybody gets some blame for this failure, but bottom line, it was the general market condition that didn't improve for 5 - 6 years of Reagans term. 79 to 85 were terrible years for business.
Edited by black_no_3 - 16 Nov 2010 at 2:50pm |
|
Lonn
Orange Level Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Назарово,Russia Points: 29773 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
There is very little difference between an 8000 series and a 7000 series. What were the problems back then? Around here Allis had a good name back then and in my area they were gaining market because of a very good nearby dealer.
|
|
-- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... -
Wink I am a Russian Bot |
|
black_no_3
Bronze Level Joined: 16 Nov 2010 Location: Big Bend WI Points: 2 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I used to work at Allis-Chalmers for 10 years, right up until 1985. I'm telling you all, I still miss that company and it will never be replaced for the void it left in my life. There was a tremendous amount of pride and dedication by alot of professional people, blue and white collar, to the product. The best people I've ever seen or met in business, worked for that company, so it's no wonder the tractors were well respected. One of the saddest days of my life was walking out of Allis-Chalmers Tractor Division on my last day of work in June '85. Anybody else posting here work there?
|
|
klinemar
Orange Level Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Michigan Points: 7935 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Allis went out of business because of bad management decisions not bad equipment we will see what Agco does now that they are all Massey.One other item Agco needs to increase their dealer network and how are they going to do that by forcing Massey tractors on everyone?
|
|
AllisFreak MN
Orange Level Access Joined: 07 Dec 2009 Location: Minnesota Points: 1505 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I think the little dictator shreds 'em.
|
|
'49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2
|
|
JohnCO
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Niwot Colo Points: 8992 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
So I wonder who the flooring salesman passes the protest letters to?
|
|
"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
Allis Express participant |
|
nowversatile
Silver Level Joined: 15 Nov 2009 Location: Western Cornbel Points: 137 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Thanks for the great link Redline! As has been stated a million times here, the Duluth wrecking ball don't give a hoot about customers like Cokes CEO, as He will go down like the Captain of the Titanic (or save himself and his shipmates will go down). It is interesting in the clip that Pepsi took the day off to celebrate. In AGCO's case, CNH and Deere don't even notice as AGCO is on the high speed highway to complete irrelevence!
|
|
CTuckerNWIL
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 22810 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Redline, I got that in an email notice and when I looked at the forum, it wasn't there, that's why I made an attempt to Quote it. I thought it sounded perfectly reasonable. I guess you never know what might happen on these here puters.
|
|
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
|
SHAMELESS
Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: EAST NE Points: 29486 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
very simple guys....when you go order a new tractor...tell them you want it painted orange, if they say no, tell em then forget it i'll go buy a kabota! think they'll wanna miss a sale?
|
|
redline
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Collins, IA Points: 1013 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Here is another example of a marketing blunder that was corrected because of public outcry.
See how you do that, AGCO? When you screw up, you fix it and go on. Ignoring the blunder doesn't do anyone any good.
And of course there is this blunder:
[TUBE]W6t7deaplgY[/TUBE] Edited by redline - 11 Oct 2010 at 10:57pm |
|
If it weren't for the last minute, I wouldn't get anything done!
|
|
redline
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Collins, IA Points: 1013 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
That was strange! I deleted that post because I thought it sounded incoherent, but it showed up anyway. I will confess to posting it originally, otherwise people will think it was just pulled out of thin air.
|
|
If it weren't for the last minute, I wouldn't get anything done!
|
|
Spud
Orange Level Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: North Dakota Points: 601 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Hello Allis Freak:
No, I grew up in Prince Edward Island. Milked cows and worked on neighboring potato farms too.
|
|
CTuckerNWIL
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 22810 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Forum: Farm Equipment
Topic: Pictures from the Agco Tractor Plant in France Posted By: redline I am pretty sure that AGCO will be disappointed in the amount of effort that many of the old diehard AC/Deutz-Allis/AGCO Allis dealers put into selling the Massey line. I imagine alot of them will drop AGCO all together, and many others will pick up another equipment line to sell. I think a large number of the AGCO dealers already had New Holland to work with, I am sure they will push on those even harder (even if they are uglier than a mud fence) By not offering the full line of equipment and tractors from small tractors all the way up through the AGCOStars automatically through the orange dealers, the orange line was being set up to fail. I totally agree. The Agco Allis dealers have been getting the shaft for years, not having the full line of equipment. |
|
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
|
AllisFreak MN
Orange Level Access Joined: 07 Dec 2009 Location: Minnesota Points: 1505 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Hey Spud, you didn't happen to work for a large potato farm in west central Minnesota back in the 90's did you? I knew a guy nicknamed Spud back then. The farm he worked for used all green equipment.
|
|
'49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2
|
|
AllisFreak MN
Orange Level Access Joined: 07 Dec 2009 Location: Minnesota Points: 1505 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Allis Chalmers37 and Spud: You both make some very good points. I also think Agco should seriously consider purchasing the Allis-Chalmers name and logo if they can, and put it to some kind of use to redeem themselves to all the people that they've alienated. Don't see it happening though.
|
|
'49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2
|
|
Spud
Orange Level Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: North Dakota Points: 601 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
For what it is worth, ILGleaner and AllisFreak, I am not saying the orange should have been dropped. I just don't like hearing that all Masseys are crap.
I know that Massey shot themselves in the foot with the 2000 series and have been trying to re-cover ever since. AC had a bad reputation back home with the 7000 series. They didn't seem to stand up to slow speed, high load potato harvesters. Because of that, a lot of people wouldn't touch an 8000 series which I believe is a very good machine. Every brand has had their problems at one time or another.
The best way out of the whole mess in a perfect world would be for Agco to try to pick up the AC name now that AC has been bought out again (and presumably the name will go in the trashcan) and perhaps put out a limited edition or special order AC edition in orange? I can understand not wanting to maintain another whole network of dealers for one color. Perhaps it could be sold through current MF and Challenger dealers who would often have been Agco orange dealers anyway.
My thought anyway. I would like to see the orange stick around one way or another.
|
|
AllisChalmers37
Orange Level Joined: 11 Jul 2010 Location: London,KY Points: 1846 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
When IH went under they did something that AC didn't. I don't know really how it happened but somewhere down the line someone saw that the IH name was a really well recognised name that sold well and had a great reputation among American farmers(just like AC). That person, or persons, actually had some common sense and put 2+2 togeather and saw that they would be stupid not to put the IH logo on the side of their new tractors and paint them the iconic IH red.
What I wouldn't give to see that AC logo back on the side of an ORANGE tractor!!! I know that the real AC died in 1985 but the real IH died before that. Today all of your IH and JD fans have either new Case IH or John Deere tractors to show how their companies name is carried into the 21st century. All we have is tractors that are either 25 years old and older (the good stuff) or what used to be orange AGCO tracotors.
Having the name back on a tractor would hopefully let the world see that again that the Allis-Chalmers name is a name that that is a world leader and the definition of quality and innovation.
It about makes me sick to be watching TV and see JD commercials when I know that AC had a better in 1985 than JD does now. AGCO was on the right track until recently. If they would have stuck with the name AGCO ALLIS in North America and put the AC logo on their equipment it would have been perfect in my opinion (shot of AC not folding in '85).
|
|
1937 WC, 1950 CA, 1959 D14, 1967 190XT, 2006 Ram 3500
|
|
TomYaz
Orange Level Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: PA Points: 10319 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Stock is going up for all of them because the grain supplies are looking tight meaning
more money for the farmer...Again one more reason NA should be up but have gone the other way.
|
|
JohnCO
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Niwot Colo Points: 8992 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I see AGCO stock is up $1.15 this morning, makes you wonder. One machine that would make sense for AGCO to market would be a extending boom forklift, like a JCB. Most of the other ag type companies sell them although JD dropped the models they were selling, wonder why?
|
|
"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
Allis Express participant |
|
AllisFreak MN
Orange Level Access Joined: 07 Dec 2009 Location: Minnesota Points: 1505 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
GBACB fan says A-C had an "unsellable product"?? I'm not sure what planet he's from. Around this region orange still dominates, even if most of it is 25+ years old. There are quite a few orange AGCO's around but I honestly can't think of one single Massey owner anywhere.
|
|
'49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2
|
|
Byron WC in SW Wi
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Wisconsin Points: 1635 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Despite any conjecture the lesson from history is that any company no matter how good their product is, how diversified they are or how big they are can go under and cease to exist. AGCO is decent sized and has a decent product. But they are poorly run and alienating their customer base during an economic downturn. They also aren't diversified at all which they claim is a good thing but in who's world is that I don't know.
|
|
DougG
Orange Level Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Location: Mo Points: 7951 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Too many NON- PAYING IRONS THAT IS !!!
|
|
DougG
Orange Level Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Location: Mo Points: 7951 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
The big problem AC had was the AG division was making money all along , that was money being used to shore up the whole corporation ; when farm equipment got slow , and then stood still ; it all went to hell quick ; they had other good bussinesses , but to many sucking the life out of them; the Coal Gassification had great promise for a while ; but it too came at a bad time in THE ECONOMY SITUATION ; That could have been huge , but as many INNOVATORS do; that much innovation takes money to pay off ; ALLIS just got caught with too many irons in the fire at a bad time
|
|
Post Reply | Page 123 4> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |