Thanks for the pictures, nowaktj. Thought I spotted two orange units in one of the first pictures.

Did I metion that I REALLY, REALLY hate Massives?

Spitting in the face of your loyal customer base is idiotic beyond measure. I have learned to hate masseys, too. I will never buy anything with that brand name. I own a challenger track tractor, and now wish I had never bought it. There will not be another on this farm.

I second that!

 

Sorry for this turning into a bashing session. Thanks for sharing the plant pics.

                                                IG

I find some people simple that say "all Masseys are Junk".  I understand where you are coming from because you laid money down and have lost value.  I believe you were running some RT and DT Agco's?  Up until Agco did away with orange, did you think they were junk or were you happy with the tractors up until that point?

 

I am not saying that there would not be bitterness after losing a brand but to say that "I have learned to hate Massey", "all Massey's are junk", "Massey gave me a bad knee" is getting a little foolish.

As you can tell, I am also like Massey.  I am glad that at least one of my favourite brands has survived the economic turmoil.

Running down Massey does not build up AC in any way.

 

I put a post up "Would you by a red AGCO?" The reason I asked was, yes the Massey is the same basic tractor and I like many others am very happy with my AGCO dealer.

 

However the name Massey Ferguson is a deal breaker for me and a lot of other folks. By the 80's Massey had fallen behind the competition, after the 1155 tractor and the 860 combine there were many issues with their equipment and dealers were dropping like flies. If you had an 860 you had to drive 75 or 100 miles to find parts.

 

The very few around here that stuck with MF equipment were odd ducks anyway or farmed with the cheapest junk they could find. Massey Ferguson is a name with a stigma attached to it around here.

 

It would help if in the North American market they would change it to AGCO Massey or at least have an advertising campaign something like this not your Grampas MF. There was a reason that Massey North America was on the list of AGCO aquisitions like White and others and it wasn't because of their market share! 

 

There is no business rule that the larger company name prevails in a buyout, aquisition, or merger. It's the stronger managers that survive that control the companies direction. Don't take this as an endorsement of AGCO's management, I don't necessarily think there doing a very good job, but for whatever reason they are at the helm. 

 

When Coca Cola changed their formula for Coke there was a groundswell of customers that objected, and they retreated. AGCO is getting a relatively small percentage of their potential US customers objecting to this change, and it's not enough to change their direction. Of almost 4000 members of this far reaching Forum, for example, there's maybe 20, heck say 50 strenuous objectors. You have valid reasons, you're entitled, but you don't make a loud enough voice to be heard by AGCO management. They're writing off what they perceive to be a small loss in business as a cost of a marketing change in direction.

 

I not in total disagreement with you, but like you I'm voicing an opinion. I'm entitled. And yes, I'm a Packer fan. There are few venues for football like Lambeau Field. 

Not Masseys' fault that I have bad knees. It is Masseys fault that they chose to build a cheap, underpowered, and mechanically unsound piece of equipment. Spud, apologies to you and anyone else who has had good luck with them. I do not like them, have never liked them, and will never like them. I have tried more than one piece of their equipment also, so i'm not basing this on an isolated incident. Also, for the record, I have not, nor will I ever buy an AGCO product. I don't give a crap if it's Plum-crazy purple! It is NOT an Allis-Chalmers. Allis-Chalmers ceased to be 6 December 1985. They will never be replaced. Even a new Allis-Chalmers branded tractor would not be the same, as it is not built by the Allis-Chalmers company, tractor division, Milwaukee, WS. Case in point. The new AC lawn mowers. Got to check one out last weekend. I am disapointed. Not the quality, especially in the deck area, that I would have expected from Simplicity. I guess Briggs is calling the shots, and wants a price point mower to compete with the big-box boys. Guess i'll have to break down and buy something green(uggh) if I ever wear out my 1986 Snapper lawn tractor.

 Up until they changed the color I liked there tractors,were they the best?? I dont know,but they were orange just like every other tractor on this farm for 40 years. And now that they are gone,I have to change colors.No? Will I drive 50 miles for something I really dont want? No. I can drive 5 miles for something I dont really want. So it will be green. Yea I have had a couple Dts a Rt and a silver combine, but they tractors are all changed to a different color now, And the combine is next.

 

                                                       IG

 How long did that work out for them??? 5 years. If they had it to do all over again, you reckon they would put there engines in the Allis equipment and keep them orange???

                                                    IG

 

Why are tractor sales in a tank since the Orange decision then? Your Coke analogy is great, but what did Coke do? They listened to their customers and gave them what they wanted, their old Coke back. Unlike the little bullheaded dictator in Duluth who spits in the face of customers. "You Vill buy what I tell You"! Similar as to why the Deutz fiasco failed, they ignored what the market place was telling them. Another example is Chrysler Corporation, never worked under Mercedes Benz. Cultures are different. There is HUGE opportunity for AGCO in North America but customer goodwill is evaporating rapidly and NA should be considered by any responsible executive as a "must win" for success. Gleaner is still the most respected name in North American harvesting but the world is rapidly going to green, red and NH yellow, simply because they are always there for support and service, even though they may not be the best. Look at what this stubby one man wrecking ball is doing: Orange gone, tractor sales tanked, He soon has Hesston eliminated, hay equipment sales tanking, attempts to eliminate Gleaner, failed due to their only success story in NA, but sure to be Challenged again. And we always hear from the "move on and accept it" crowd (Neville Chamberlain types) and my question to those who say the market can't support AGCO's founding brands, what is Challenger combine doing? Will they make it to 10 sales this year? If so, sales need to get in gear. Somehow though, big bucks continue to flow to Challenger as this is a good business case!

 

 

I would assume only a very small number of AGCO customers actually visit this site, and even few are registered members.

 

If so few object, the NA sales dont reflect that fact.  The first 2 quarters since the announcment have been a disaster (NA only).  The competition is having a good year.

Grain receipts are good. No reason why AGCO NA shouldnt be doing good. But wait there is a reason. Guess what it is? 

 

Allis Chalmers had gone down the $hit chute before KHD bought them in  1985. KHD paid $107 M for a loosing company, lost money for five more years, and finally stopped the bleeding and dumped them in 1989, and took a one time loss of $282M. It wasn't like KHD trashed a successful company, they couldn't resuscitate a terminally ill aquisition.

 

What you're missing with the Coke analogy is that a LOT of Coke customers objected, and Coke responded. With orange AGCO tractors, the negative response is viewed by AGCO as relatively insignificant. There is no groundswell of concern being voiced to AGCO. They maybe get a few hundred letters, a few oranges left at shows from a minority making a point, but not enough objection to change their business decision.

 

There are many factors that impact AGCO's current sales. I'm sure the color change is one of them for some people. We have certainly seen that here. I'd assume the greater factor is People don't want to buy a tractor that will be considered obsolete, whatever the color. I wouldn't.  

 

An earlier post said it well. Allis Chalmers died in 1985. The remnants that exist are some other company. Nothing is forever. RIP.

 

Im not talking about AC sales in 1985. DOnt really care about that.  Im talking about AGCO NA sales this year. They have dropped considerably for some strange reason when by all accounts and compared with ther competitors they should be doing well. 

Not all marketing blunders are going to be made themselves known by letter writing campaigns ala Coke.  Seems to me farmers are the speak softly and carry a big stick type anyway. So there may be no verbal clamoring about the change, but it does seem to me that the customer base has spoken their dis-approval with their wallets.

 

How else would you explain those weird NA numbers?

 

 

Ok your post made more sense now! LOL!

 

 >>>People don't want to buy a tractor that will be considered obsolete, whatever the color. I wouldn't.

 

So you think AGCO's tractors are obsolete compared to the competition? Wow if thats the case AGCO got bigger problems then Orange!

 

>>Another consideration is that perhaps they are simply writing off the NA market in favor of greater opportunities worldwide.

 

So your saying AGCO is thinkin "We are going Massey and if it costs us NA, then so be it"... I would have to think the AGCO Board wouldnt like that strategery...might as well close up HQ in Duluth and go to Europe.  

 

Is anything similar about todays situation? AGCO has a top notch line up of machinery and tractors, sales were growing up until the "No more orange!" announcement. (Remember 4 orange tractors sold for every MF & Challeger combined) Now sales are way off. Maybe AGCO IS thinkin "We are going Massey and if it costs us NA, then so be it"... You WOULD think the AGCO Board wouldnt like that strategery but so far no one has said anything PUBLICLY... Who said closing up HQ in Duluth isn't the long term plan. After all AGCO HQ is in Duluth, sounds like long term AGCO will eventually become MF and where is that HQ located?

 

The last comment is to thank Terry for taking pics of a factory most of us will never see in person. Cool pics, Terry, and much appreciated.

 

This is just plain wrong! AC had a respectable market share into 1985 and there was (and still is) a tremendous respect for the AC tractors. What was MF doing in 1985? The problems within AC were related to a coal gasification project that was started during the Carter administration, and when Carter was expelled from the White House, the project was tabled and it cost AC nearly a Billion dollars - hence the sale of the ag business which was still profitable. As has been posted here many times, the 8000 series tractors were among the best on the market during their time and still command high resale prices. The biggest product snafu from AC in the early 80's would likely be the N7 combine, but that too got fixed. Look at the problems IH had, Ford was eventually sold to NH (where they wisely kept the colors), so there were many issues with all manufacturers, not just AC. Speaking of MF, along with going bankrupt, their prime tractor of the time (I believe the 2000 series) had many issues and We had local dealers that were just dropped with no parts or service remaining. So this is what the wrecking crew in Duluth is going to bank on!

 

I too, believe that NA is not an important player for AGCO going forward, but from a financial strategic position, I don't see how you can be successful in the global ag business without a strong play in NA. The naysayers can bloviate all you want about the "insignificance" of the Orange tractor customer, but facts are facts and they are speaking pretty loudly right now.

 

Stock is going up for all of them because the grain supplies are looking tight meaning

more money for the farmer...Again one more reason NA should be up but have gone the other way.

 

When IH went under they did something that AC didn't. I don't know really how it happened but somewhere down the line someone saw that the IH name was a really well recognised name that sold well and had a great reputation among American farmers(just like AC). That person, or persons, actually had some common sense and put 2+2 togeather and saw that they would be stupid not to put the IH logo on the side of their new tractors and paint them the iconic IH red.

 

What I wouldn't give to see that AC logo back on the side of an ORANGE tractor!!!  I know that the real AC died in 1985 but the real IH died before that. Today all of your IH and JD fans have either new Case IH or John Deere tractors to show how their companies name is carried into the 21st century. All we have is tractors that are either 25 years old and older (the good stuff)  or what used to be orange AGCO tracotors.  

 

 

Having the name back on a tractor would hopefully let the world see that again that the Allis-Chalmers name is a name that that is a world leader and the definition of quality and innovation.

 

It about makes me sick to be watching TV and see JD commercials when I know that AC had a better in 1985 than JD does now. AGCO was on the right track until recently. If they would have stuck with the name AGCO ALLIS in North America and put the AC logo on their equipment it would have been perfect in my opinion (shot of AC not folding in '85).

I know that Massey shot themselves in the foot with the 2000 series and have been trying to re-cover ever since.  AC had a bad reputation back home with the 7000 series.  They didn't seem to stand up to slow speed, high load potato harvesters.  Because of that, a lot of people wouldn't touch an 8000 series which I believe is a very good machine.  Every brand has had their problems at one time or another.

The best way out of the whole mess in a perfect world would be for Agco to try to pick up the AC name now that AC has been bought out again (and presumably the name will go in the trashcan) and perhaps put out a limited edition or special order AC edition in orange?  I can understand not wanting to maintain another whole network of dealers for one color.  Perhaps it could be sold through current MF and Challenger dealers who would often have been Agco orange dealers anyway.

My thought anyway.  I would like to see the orange stick around one way or another. 

No, I grew up in Prince Edward Island.  Milked cows and worked on neighboring potato farms too.

http://www.kcci.com/money/25360260/detail.html - http://www.kcci.com/money/25360260/detail.html

See how you do that, AGCO? When you screw up, you fix it and go on. Ignoring the blunder doesn't do anyone any good.

And of course there is this blunder:

[TUBE]W6t7deaplgY[/TUBE]

 

Thanks for the great link Redline! As has been stated a million times here, the Duluth wrecking ball don't give a hoot about customers like Cokes CEO, as He will go down like the Captain of the Titanic (or save himself and his shipmates will go down). It is interesting in the clip that Pepsi took the day off to celebrate. In AGCO's case, CNH and Deere don't even notice as AGCO is on the high speed highway to complete irrelevence!

There is very little difference between an 8000 series and a 7000 series. What were the problems back then? Around here Allis had a good name back then and in my area they were gaining market because of a very good nearby dealer.

Kinda surprised to see this topic bumped to the top of the heap again.........

 

When AGCO ceases to exist and the company is called Massey Fergusen (sp?) they will rewrite history and AGCO, AC, White, Oliver, MM and eventually most of the other euro brands they currently sell will become "lesser known classics" from "failed" companies and the Massey history will begin with the original Massey and go "seamlessly" into the future. The victors always write history.

My point in all of this is this. agco created uncertainty and doubt as to if they are interested in the midwest market at all. I for one was not going to wait around, and see if the MF's have any resale value. My banker, has already suggested that I lower my machinery value by 10-12%, that is a pretty big hit on the balance sheet, not going to risk that again.