Take a stab at my starter problem.

Our 220 has a starting (starter?) problem that has me scratching my head. From the time we bought it once in maybe 10 starts it would click but not turn, when it does this the ammeter shows almost max discharge, like 30 amps. If you hold the start button in the small wire going to the solinoid gets HOT quickly and starts letting the smoke out. Used to be it did this only once in maybe 10 starts and would start on the second try, then it turned to 2-3 now you have to click it a dozen times before it will turn almost every time you start it. We have done major upgrades to the electrical system during all this as the electrical wiring was a mess. Not one wire is original to the tractor now, all new including the battery cables and it has two new 4D batteries. The starting problem remained throughout all the changes. I assumed te solinoid was bad and replaced it but no changes. As you know we also recently changed engines and the problem didnt change with that either. With all the new parts it realy whips it over when it decides to tun over. Had the starter had a local shop that is real good, no problems (as I assumed it would be since it turns over real fast WHEN it turns). Cold, hot makes no differance.  We by passed all the wiring and ran a wire from the battery to a switch and to the solinoid as a test and same thing. You can even use a screwdriver to jump from the solinoid and it just clicks.  If it did nothing we would assume a open condition in the starter and replace it. What has me stumped, and the starter shop too, is the big time discharge at the ammeter when it clicks but doesnt turn over?? I am not ready to spend $300 for a starter and have the same problem. Take a stab at it. Im out of ideas.

Sound like a dead spot in the starter Butch thats going to ground, thats why it shows discharge on the amp guage.  Theres a few segments grounded, thats why it doesnt do it all the time, as the segments go bad it happens more and more.   Evidently it isnt grounded enough to make smoke roll, but enough so the starter wont turn, once it turns theres still enough life in it to start the engine.  Youve already replaced everything else that can go bad, so the starer is left.HTH

My old TLB has done that for 10 years"click the first time you push the start button"I just hit it the second time.

Butch, 220 is much newer than my knowledge.  If you can still get to the brushes, wait till it does it again, turn everything off.  take the cover off the brushes, use a screw driver to turn the armature some, put all back together and see if it starts.   While you have it off and before you rotate the armature, mark the armature.  Red nail polish works if you don't think it will hurt your image.  If you use a color that glows in the dark, people will think you are a tramp.  Then the next time it goes bad, check to see if the mark came up in the same place.  If you cant get to the brushes, you might be able to do the same thing by taking the end cap off.


Edited by Dave Richards (WV) - 07 Jun 2010 at 1:50pm

My 220 does the same, on a starter that is only 2 yrs. old.  I'm thinking it may be the pushbutton switch, as mine just quit completely.  I did the same as you, jumping at the soliniod but still just clicks.  But when jumping at the back of the pushbutton switch it usually cranks right away.  I hope to get a switch in a few days and try again.  BTW, mine also about maxes the amp meter when this happens.

 I agree with Ted above me. If your small wire is getting hot that fast it is carrying the load current. Even if the armature shorted the battery cables or brushes would get hot, not your solenoid lead. Gotta be something grounding in the wrong place, or your solenoid out post connection to your starter housing in post isn't good.  Which posts were you touching with the screwdriver? Tough to diagnose from a keyboard. Good Luck.

Check the integrity of the ground cable , where the wire goes into the  lug at the frame.

Yep, I agree the little wire that powers the coil in the solenoid shouldn't get hot at all unless there is a short in the coil.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys, we have a few things to try. The starter has been off the tractor twice. Once for a Butch(OH) inspetion and today to the real deal shop who said "you dont have starter problems". The problem has also stayed over two solinoids and a rewiring job.  I  happen to keep a Ford solinoid at the shop since we have a fleet of them around here and I can wire it in as suggested. One thing  I have not had is a helper around to run the switch while I probe around with a meter, so guessing is where it lays for now.

This is about the simplest circuit on a tractor. Power from the battery to the amp meter, other side of meter to the start switch,. through switch into the coil in the relay. the other end if ther coil is connected to the chassis (ground). No direct connection to the starter, so it doesn't even enter into the equasion. Try jumping from the battery terminal to the relay start switch connection with a heavy jumper cable.

I'd say dave h is right,have lots of engines do this and when you do every thing thats been done here it will be the pinion not engaging properly.Starter will test fine on the bench,but if the back starter bushing has abit of wear in it the pinion can misalign and jam.We had a harvester that did this from new,in the end we had to file the starter holes to give the pinion more side clearance from the flywheel ring gear.Never clicked again.

Check the flywheel ring gear for a bad spot in it.

Man! This was back 5 pages already.