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Engine Kit Consensus

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DaveKamp View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Location: LeClaire, Ia
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2010 at 9:10pm
Hi Steve-  You're right- I went back and took another look at my project photos, and at TDC, the piston never exhibits protrusion- it is down, looks like around 1/2".

And guys- I understand compression height, displacement, compression ratio, and piston ring theory very, very well- I bought a hardbound copy of Taylor's "The Internal Combustion Engine in Theory and Practice, 2nd Edition" when I was in high-school, read it cover-to-cover and bluprinted a few engines prior to engineering school.  Compression ratio is a function of displacement over TDC total chambered volume.  This volume includes volume left unoccupied by the 'dish', as well as unswept area at the top of the cylinder... even the cavity area within the spark-plug insulator and a wee bit'a space around that top ring.

Panky- What John refers to on Page 50 only applies when you're comparing the compression ring's position between two identical pistons, and if you do the math, you'll find that the change of compression characteristic with respect to setback distance only has a significant effect when you have very high CR and very little quench volume.  John didn't overlook this in the article, Page 49 states it quite clearly.  In short, when you're dealing with a total chamber volume of 100cc, having 0.031cc of ring land volume, vs. 0.029cc, the net change in compression ratio is three places in from the decimal.

Finally, if you look at Page 50, directly above where you referenced, the image caption explains why one would NOT want to relocate the ring higher-  durability.

All I'm trying to do, is determine, out of all the 'stuff' advertised out there, what is imported (and for me, undesired), and where non-dished pistons are offered, will the WC gasoline stock 5:1 compression ratio wind up being 7.25:1, or what.  So far, of what I've seen, NOBODY advertises the point of origin, or the resulting CR WILL be.

Perhaps I'm being a bit too 'protective' of my project, but there's a plethora of parts being shipped in from southeast Asia, and I have no intention of putting such things inside this old girl.  Melling is about a 40 minute drive from my doorstep, so if I buy everything individually, I'll drive up there and tour the plant when I pick up sleeves.  Pistons are a different story- I haven't seen ANY places that advertise making replacement AC power-crater pistons, and I suspect that if they WERE, they'd likely be imported.  Frankly, if domestically-made quality replacements aren't available, I'd rather chuck my pistons in the 10EE and turn 'em to round and re-cut the ring lands, have a new set of rings MADE, and take 'em to Melling to have a set of undersized sleeves made-to-suit, but I have a sneaking suspicion I'm not the first guy to be doing a WC.
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2010 at 9:18pm
I think we all have the same concerns Dave.. probalby 90% of the guys on this page, if they were rebulding a motor, would like to use USA parts. Thye would also like to raise the compression from the original 5 or 6 :1 to 7.5 or 8 :1 just to get a couple extra HP. Boring the motor .030 over is not going to make any HP to speak of.  What you really want is dependability... That being said, there is nothing wrong with Asian parts if your dealing with a good dealer who has had good luck with his parts.  Your putting your faith in the dealer... Sounds like you know what you want, but might not be available.. I think the overseas pistons are probalby o.k.  Most of the liners are=o.k.... what you really got to do is measure and make sure they are made to spec.. YOu can buy Hasting Piston rings in ANT size you want for ANY motor, on their site . You might go that route.  I remember a couple weeks ago someone bought a new ikit and then found out the bores were .015 oversize and not round... thats were your dealer can be helpful..
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Kip-Utah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kip-Utah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2010 at 11:29pm
My BS meter just maxed out & I think that it might have even broke the needle!!
HANSEN'S OLD ORANGE IRON. Showing, Pulling, & Going!!
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Butch(OH) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Butch(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2010 at 2:02pm
Originally posted by Kip-Utah Kip-Utah wrote:

My BS meter just maxed out & I think that it might have even broke the needle!!
Kip! You didn't get snookered into one of those imported BS meters did ya? 
 They got the pistons on the wrong side and the rings mounted too low in cracked 1/8 overbore sleeves dont  ya know??? 
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mlpankey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2010 at 2:25pm
My point on ring land location and page 50 pointed it out . Is that two different kits can have the same pin location but one kit will run better if the first ring is within a 1/4 of the top of the piston vs 1/2 inch down for turbo application.  Considering the little things in a engine build can make horsepower over shade tree joes build without any extra money being spent and leave you with a smile when dynoing at the local fair. PS that is no BS!

Edited by mlpankey - 19 Apr 2010 at 2:27pm
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Butch(OH) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Butch(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2010 at 4:06pm
 
I stand corrected, seems to happen about every time I play expert on here. I never even specified turbo, or no-turbo when I ordered the kits for my WC and B models. I will next time.
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mlpankey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2010 at 6:03pm
Originally posted by Butch(OH) Butch(OH) wrote:

 
I stand corrected, seems to happen about every time I play expert on here. I never even specified turbo, or no-turbo when I ordered the kits for my WC and B models. I will next time.
Thats funny butch. How do you know the kit youre getting . that the pistons werent purchased for more than one application .Then picked from a stocking shelve and packaged with rings and gaskets as a kit.   You never know I seen deep groved rings sent with shallow groved ring land pistons before . The guy beat the pistons in the block then wanted the machine shop he purchased the rebuild kit from to buy him a complete new engine.
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