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HD11 |
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Andrew_D
Silver Level Joined: 28 May 2013 Location: Newdale,MB,Can Points: 148 |
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OK, first up is "4044210 BEARING, ball, front". The bearing that came out has the following info:
"New Departure" "Z3304" ID measured to 0.790" which is a hair over 20mm. Uh oh..... OD measured to 2.049" which is a hair over 52mm. More uh oh.... Thickness measured to 0.590" which is 15mm. Hmmm.... This is looking more and more like a metric bearing. What are the chances of this on a 55 year old machine?? Andrew On Edit: OK, looks like a 6304 bearing. I'm going to guess that the original bearings were open-frame since the ones in the fan hub and idler were open-frame. Also, the pump uses a cork sealing washer instead of an o-ring or seal. Edited by Andrew_D - 25 Aug 2013 at 2:14pm |
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Andrew_D
Silver Level Joined: 28 May 2013 Location: Newdale,MB,Can Points: 148 |
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Next is "4044212 BEARING, ball, rear". The bearing that came out has the following info:
"N D" "_204" The first digit looks to have a loop at the bottom, so it could be 3, 5, 6 or 8. ID measured to 0.790" which is a hair over 20mm. OD measured to 1.853" which is a hair over 47mm. Thickness measured to 0.550" which is 14mm. Again, looks like it just might be a metric bearing. Andrew On Edit: Looks like a 6204 bearing. Also, open frame. Or should this one have a seal on the impeller side?? Just in case the water pump seal goes, it would (help) keep water out of the bearing. Although, I guess the grease should be doing that! Edited by Andrew_D - 25 Aug 2013 at 2:32pm |
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Andrew_D
Silver Level Joined: 28 May 2013 Location: Newdale,MB,Can Points: 148 |
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Finally, the seal: "4507084 FLINGER, water" and "4507091 SEAL ASSEMBLY"
No markings of any kind on either piece, so I'll have to go off of measurements. I found a seal that seems to match the dimensions. It's from www.nbseal.com. It's their # TPSB3B-16. Andrew Edited by Andrew_D - 25 Aug 2013 at 3:50pm |
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Lazyts
Orange Level Joined: 05 Feb 2012 Location: Manitoba Points: 627 |
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Go to www.minnpar.com- type in your part number preceded by a 7- Fiat Allis part numbers were changed to an 8 digit number starting with 7, so you need to add a 7 or 70 to old part numbers to "update" them.
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Andrew_D
Silver Level Joined: 28 May 2013 Location: Newdale,MB,Can Points: 148 |
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Thanks Trevor. Now that I see that, I seem to remember reading that in the past... Andrew |
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Andrew_D
Silver Level Joined: 28 May 2013 Location: Newdale,MB,Can Points: 148 |
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Looks like minnpar has the bearings, but not the seal. Website says to call. Guess I'll have to do that tomorrow. The bearings are crossing to 6304 and 6204 open-cage bearings, so I should be able to source them locally. Andrew |
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Steve allis dozer
Silver Level Access Joined: 10 Apr 2011 Location: Australia Points: 232 |
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Andrew , if you are loading the machine onto a trailer up ramps at the back it's better to drive up rather than reverse up them also be sure to have the truck on level ground if possible,(if your not happy with how the trailer is sitting get the truck driver to move it rather than drive on a trailer that's not level) its good to have someone looking from a safe distance in front of the trailer to guide you on making sure both tracks are even as the machine goes up the ramps, if you find the machine is not going up the ramps straight its better to slowly reverse off and have another go rather than try and turn as you go up as to avoid touching the steering levers as you go up the ramps and over the balance point. make sure no one is standing to the side of the trailer when your loading ,If its wet and muddy I will wait until it s dry to load a machine as they will slide off very easily and them old machines don't have ROPS canopy's.
hope this helps regards steve |
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Andrew_D
Silver Level Joined: 28 May 2013 Location: Newdale,MB,Can Points: 148 |
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Well, I was able to find the bearings locally and they should be here this afternoon.
The water pump seal is proving more troublesome. Minnpar doesn't have any, but their supplier does. However, with a less-than-$50-order surcharge, shipping, etc the seal has gone from $10 on the web site, to almost $30. And that's still USD. Convert to Canadian, add in GST, duty, etc.... I'm still checking with a couple of local place, but no one has returned my inquiries after 2 hours, so it doesn't look good.... Andrew Edited by Andrew_D - 26 Aug 2013 at 4:00pm |
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Andrew_D
Silver Level Joined: 28 May 2013 Location: Newdale,MB,Can Points: 148 |
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Well, after checking with 4 other places it looks like I'll have to order it from MinnPar. Any other good-to-have-on-hand items? I'd rather spend the extra $40 on something I might need than $4 on a small-order surcharge!
I tried the number for the impeller, but it comes up as a no-go on MinnPar's website. I'll have to check with them. The ceramic disc is not attached to the impeller. Parts book shows it as one unit, but are they supposed to be attached? Or seperate? Could this be reattached with something ???? Andrew Edited by Andrew_D - 26 Aug 2013 at 8:37pm |
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Ian Beale
Orange Level Joined: 03 Oct 2011 Location: New South Wales Points: 960 |
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Andrew,
AC 45 grader service manual says
"Ceramic insert - bonded to impeller (not serviced separately)"
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Andrew_D
Silver Level Joined: 28 May 2013 Location: Newdale,MB,Can Points: 148 |
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OK. Does the AC45 have the same engine? The parts book for the HD11 says "IMPELLER ASSEMBLY (includes ceramic insert)" so I wasn't 100% sure if it was 1 piece or 2. I'm going to be phoning MinnPar today to see if they have, or can get the impeller, but it shows not available on their website. That's why I'm wondering about re-bonding it to the impeller. Anyone have any ideas? Andrew Edited by Andrew_D - 27 Aug 2013 at 5:27pm |
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Ian Beale
Orange Level Joined: 03 Oct 2011 Location: New South Wales Points: 960 |
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Andrew,
The AC 45's all have the 516 engine. Early ones are ADS 516 (Lanova head with horizontal injectors) and later ones 10000 and 11000 series. So I'd punt the same pump.
I got a seal for ours from Minnpar a while ago as a spare.
I'd also punt that you'd be OK with a used impeller so long as the creamic was OK - didn't look too fragile to me.
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Andrew_D
Silver Level Joined: 28 May 2013 Location: Newdale,MB,Can Points: 148 |
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Just a quick note on today's progress.
After fighting with getting the water pump out of this machine (4-5 hours), I didn't even bother to go to the HD11 parts machine I got as part of the deal. I had figured that a few bucks for some bearings and seals was worth the hassle and then I'd know where I was at. Well, this morning I went over and had a look. As luck would have it, removing the water pump was a breeze on this machine. Being the ag version (HD11S), it didn't have the large hard nose with the cylinder brackets which meant easy side access. The pulley came off very easy, unlike the one on the running machine. Having learned a couple of tricks on getting the first one out of the timing gear housing, the parts machine gave up its' water pump quite easily. Once I got it out, the seal is in good-enough-to-use condition and the impeller/ceramic looks good too. Bearings were pretty loose though, so I took it all apart and had 2 water pumps in pieces. I cleaned out all the old, dry grease and reassembled with the new bearings I picked up yesterday and the old seal and impeller. I'm hoping that it will last for a bit while I get my hands on a pair of bearings and a seal to rebuild the remaining pieces - if I have a ready-to-go spare on the shelf, this one should last an eternity! I didn't even try to remove the old seal - just used the water pump housing from the parts machine! Andrew Edited by Andrew_D - 27 Aug 2013 at 6:48pm |
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Andrew_D
Silver Level Joined: 28 May 2013 Location: Newdale,MB,Can Points: 148 |
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Anyone have thoughts on ordering a new impeller?
Or is there a way to bond the ceramic disc back on to the impeller and use the one I've got? I've read a bit on-line about using RTV silicone to bond the two together. Wasn't for this specific engine, but should work... Andrew Edited by Andrew_D - 27 Aug 2013 at 7:05pm |
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CAL(KS)
Orange Level Joined: 18 Sep 2009 Location: Chapman, KS Points: 3786 |
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dad and i just went through this on one the 8550's. the seal was leaking because it came loose from the back of the impeller. we ordered a new seal and come to find out, the rest of the seal is bonded to the back of the impeller and you had to buy it also. luckily it was still available so we didnt have to try any bonding. we wondered if an epoxy of some kind would work better than silicone?
good luck be careful not to touch the ceramic faces with anything even your fingers
Edited by CAL(KS) - 28 Aug 2013 at 9:13pm |
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
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Andrew_D
Silver Level Joined: 28 May 2013 Location: Newdale,MB,Can Points: 148 |
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Well, after rebuilding the water pump from the parts dozer with new bearings, it appears to be working. Tested first with water and no leaks. Drained overnight and refilled today with coolant. All looks well!
On the second pump front, the RTV silicone appears to be working to keep the silicon disk and impeller together. I'll order some bearings locally. The other set I got was cheaper delivered to my door than MinnPar's price on the website, so I'll do that again. That will give me a spare water pump "just in case"! I've got an email in to MinnPar about the seal. Also getting prices for the 3 v-belts. Was able to find the generator/water pump belt available locally, but can't seem to match the length of the fan belts. Might end up ordering a set along with the water pump seal... Andrew Edited by Andrew_D - 29 Aug 2013 at 4:41pm |
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Steve allis dozer
Silver Level Access Joined: 10 Apr 2011 Location: Australia Points: 232 |
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its hard to find parts for a forty to fifty year old machine also with the company that made them gone for around thirty years, track rollers were up to $600 compared to cat rollers for $300 over here and because no one would buy them for that price they stopped making them ,sooner or later minnpar will stop making parts for the same reason , you cant buy some final drive seals anymore and transmission parts
I think you can still buy the water pump complete if your rebuilt one fails but I think you mite have to sit down when you get the price ! |
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Andrew_D
Silver Level Joined: 28 May 2013 Location: Newdale,MB,Can Points: 148 |
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Just a bit of an update. Finally got finished with harvest and fall field work - fertilizer, etc. I borrowed my neighbour's lowbed and moved the dozer to some land we purchased last spring with a bit of bush on it.
Ground is froze here now, so it skims off the willows and small stuff fairly easily - cuts them off at ground level. I started on a smaller bunch of poplars to get used to the machine and am pushing them over 1 or 2 at a time, then piling. The biggest problem so far is that the original owner did some clearing in the early 1980's. He had everything pushed over, looks like he windrowed it and burned it.....but that's it! He never cleaned up the left over windrows. So now 30-50 feet in from the edge of each slough is a mound 2 feet high and 5 feet wide that is mostly frozen! I'm piling the trees on top of this mound. Hopefully next fall we can burn the windrows and piles and then re-pile it all to get the dirt out - gotta make a root/rock rake for this machine! With the poplars being so close together, I've had to push on them with the corner couple feet of the blade in order to only get 1 or 2 at a time. (Where possible I push in the middle of the blade.) Is this going to be trouble over time? (The blade is 12.5 feet.) Andrew Edited by Andrew_D - 26 Nov 2013 at 6:50am |
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Lazyts
Orange Level Joined: 05 Feb 2012 Location: Manitoba Points: 627 |
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Do what you gotta do- probably won't be doing anything that hasn't been done before with the old dozer.
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Andrew_D
Silver Level Joined: 28 May 2013 Location: Newdale,MB,Can Points: 148 |
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Yeah, that's true!! Hoping to get down your way to pick up those pads Trevor. We've got friends in Somerset, so am thinking on heading that way and drop the wife and kids off to visit on my way there. Not sure when though.... Andrew |
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