Gemmer Steering Box

Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic

     I set the tooth depth on on my "C". The eccentric screw was missing, so I rotated it into place by lightly tapping on it with a dead blow hammer, which worked out fine. When I installed the box on the tractor, the tube ends up about 1" above the rest plate where the upper part of the tube gets clamped on. I understand setting tooth depth rotates the housing. Is this normal? 
   When it is clamped in place and the front tires are lifted it steers easy, so it doesn't seem like it is binding. I don't want to hurt the bearings over time holding it down to get the clamp on.
The correct way to solve this would be to make a longer support tube, drill new mounting holes in it and remount the throttle, battery box tab and the box for switches and amp. gauge. Ths seems like alot of extra work for a design flaw. Should I go the extra mile or stop over-thinking it?
  Also is there a shorter steering box arm available to make it steer easier. I don't need the full amount of travel that it currently has. Tractor is a 1942 according to serial numbers.
  Thanks

	This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity.
	The Forum	Parts and Services	Unofficial Allis Store	Tractor Shows	Serial Numbers	History

Author	Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic
cmsmoke Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 19 Feb 2011 Location: Johnstown, Pa Points: 118	Post Options Post Reply Quote cmsmoke Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Gemmer Steering Box Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 9:18am
	I set the tooth depth on on my "C". The eccentric screw was missing, so I rotated it into place by lightly tapping on it with a dead blow hammer, which worked out fine. When I installed the box on the tractor, the tube ends up about 1" above the rest plate where the upper part of the tube gets clamped on. I understand setting tooth depth rotates the housing. Is this normal? When it is clamped in place and the front tires are lifted it steers easy, so it doesn't seem like it is binding. I don't want to hurt the bearings over time holding it down to get the clamp on. The correct way to solve this would be to make a longer support tube, drill new mounting holes in it and remount the throttle, battery box tab and the box for switches and amp. gauge. Ths seems like alot of extra work for a design flaw. Should I go the extra mile or stop over-thinking it? Also is there a shorter steering box arm available to make it steer easier. I don't need the full amount of travel that it currently has. Tractor is a 1942 according to serial numbers. Thanks

Sponsored Links

Thad in AR. Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arkansas Points: 9563	Post Options Post Reply Quote Thad in AR. Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 8:39pm
	Somehow I think you may have the wrong gear box. The steering tube should lay right in the saddle and not bind. Could it be that the verticle pipe that the saddle sets in has been shortened? Does it steer easy before you pull the steering shaft down and clamp it? I think things are binding. Do you have the saddle that the steering tube sets on? It goes on the top of the verticle pipe that the switch box and throtle lever mount to.

cmsmoke Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 19 Feb 2011 Location: Johnstown, Pa Points: 118	Post Options Post Reply Quote cmsmoke Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Apr 2011 at 6:07am
	It has the right steering box. The tractor steers easy with the wheels off the ground. I don't think that pulling it down is causing it to steer hard. My concern is causing the bearings to wear prematurely. The tractor steering effort is probably normal. The reason I asked about a shorter arm is it is a little harder than my liking. They could all be this way. Thanks

Dakota Dave Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: ND Points: 3962	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dakota Dave Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Apr 2011 at 8:31am
	Along with the eccentric screw, there should be two eccentric bustings. moving all three wil move the housing up and down without changing the angle of the steering tube. Its best to set the clearance with the box installed. If you don't have the eccentrics on its a moot point as your settings will never stay. within a week it will be loose again.

Boomer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Mid Missouri Points: 102	Post Options Post Reply Quote Boomer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Apr 2011 at 9:43am
	Help! I am having the same problem. I changed the bottom eccentric to adjust the backlash of the gears. Similar to other machines that have this similar setup...I adjust the bottom ecentric bolt to the point where the is very little drag in the middle. Most of the time the middle point of the worm screw is most worn, because it is steered straight most of the time. The eccentric bushing mentioned, I think is just a tapered bushing, and I have only one "bushing". I guess I will to loosen the adjustment and get the steering tube angle correct, and tighten the gear box at that time.

Boomer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Mid Missouri Points: 102	Post Options Post Reply Quote Boomer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Apr 2011 at 9:43am
	Also, will a later model of steering box interchange?

GlenninPA Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Ashley, PA Points: 5054	Post Options Post Reply Quote GlenninPA Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Apr 2011 at 10:11am
	The Ross box should bolt right on.
	Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment. From listening comes wisdom and from speaking comes repentance. Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.

cmsmoke Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 19 Feb 2011 Location: Johnstown, Pa Points: 118	Post Options Post Reply Quote cmsmoke Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Apr 2011 at 10:46am
	Thanks Dakota Dave! This is starting to make sense now. Somebody put spacers in every hole of my steering box to keep the holes centered with the studs. I don't know why. They are not what was intended to be there. I removed them and adjusted as I desribed above. My steering box has a large stepped stud with a sort of acme thread on the thick part and the standard 7/16" fine thread on the end. This stud is what I thought was the pivot point. The large nut is missing and has a pipe spacer replacing it. Is this the other eccentric point? I didn't take the box apart, just adjusted it. The parts book and service manual are kind of vague in this area. Does anyone have pictures of a Gemmer apart so that I can see what I need? It looks like I'm going to need some parts or another box. Can anyone help?

Dakota Dave Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: ND Points: 3962	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dakota Dave Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Apr 2011 at 8:28pm
	Yes there should be an eccentric sleeve there. Its suposed to have a hex end on the sleeve and the nut tightens against it. the other holse look kinda elongated and have washers that tighten against the housing to spread the load.

cmsmoke Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 19 Feb 2011 Location: Johnstown, Pa Points: 118	Post Options Post Reply Quote cmsmoke Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Apr 2011 at 4:57am
	I took it apart and the sleeve is still there, but the hex is sheared off. Hopefully I can get the sleeve out and still use it for now to make an adjustment. I think I can make an eccentric screw. Does anyone know where I can get an eccentric screw and sleeve?

cmsmoke Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 19 Feb 2011 Location: Johnstown, Pa Points: 118	Post Options Post Reply Quote cmsmoke Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Apr 2011 at 7:41pm
	OK, I have it apart. There are more issues than I thought. As you can see the eccentric rivit hole has been tapped, but look what someone did to the adjustment sleeve stud. A 3/4" capscrew has been threaded into the housing and then machined down and threaded to 7/16". What a mess! Is the small hole above the large stud supposed to be there and if so, what is it for? This is how it was. I ordered an adjusting sleeve, eccentric rivit, studs, nuts, large dia. lock washers and gaskets from Brattons. The parts I ordered are actually for a '29-'31 Ford Model A. They also used a 2 segment Gemmer box. They should be here tomorrow. I will let you know if they will work. The whole bill was $21 and change plus shipping. I am going to thread a 3/4" stud into the large hole with some type of locktight or bearing mount, cut it off and grind/file flush, then I will drill and tap it for the new stud. The rivit hole will need to be addressed as well. The good news is the sector, worm and bearings are very nice (Almost like new). Before i get too far ahead, the studs I ordered are listed as 3/8". The studs in this box are 7/16". What size should they be? I want to make sure there is enough room in the holes to get adjustment. I will either helicoil them down to 3/8" or open up the holes another 1/16" if needed. Edited by cmsmoke - 14 Apr 2011 at 7:44pm

cmsmoke Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 19 Feb 2011 Location: Johnstown, Pa Points: 118	Post Options Post Reply Quote cmsmoke Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Apr 2011 at 10:35pm
	The new parts came today and I reworked the butchered housing. It turned out great. I did a dry fit and everything works correctly. I will finish it tomorrow. Here are a couple more pictures. Take alook at the new parts. There is another place called Mac's that has steering parts for '32-'34 fords including sector shafts and worms that look to be correct for the Allis steering boxes. He also has the bearings.