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how fast on a stock oil pump
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wi50 View Drop Down
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Joined: 24 Sep 2010
Location: weegieland
Points: 1010 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wi50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: how fast on a stock oil pump
    Posted: 14 Jan 2011 at 1:43pm
How fast would you think one can run a E engine with a stock oil pump in it?  Or what have you seen guys turn them?
 
I'm useing a E engine with a lot of custom work.  We made a new cylinder head with much more potential than the old head.  I'm  a little worried about the load on the camshaft when the speed gets up, between the valve train load and the oil pump I'm worried about breaking a cam and trashing the engine.  I could slow the pump down a little with a different cam and oil pump gear.  The main caps and girdle system is well underway, almost identical to the one I built on my old block.  There's room for a stock pump unless I counterweight the crank.  I'm just debabeing weather or not to get a belt driven pump.  It would probably be best and give me the chance to use a billet cam.  I never ran a rev limeter on the old engine, but I'm going to have to limet this one.
 
On the old engine, I used a little gear pump inside the oil pan.  It's bolted to the front main cap with spacers to hold it the correct distance from the crank.  I took an old cam gear and machined it out, put a bolt pattern in it and made a steel hub for the oil pump so it's driven at 1/2 crank speed. 
 
 
 The first engine I built used an original oil pump from WD45 with no more work than cleaning it up, I put a bulkhead fitting through the block and piped all the oil through a filter base with a regulater and then back in the original relief vavle hole.  It had a fair bit of stroke in it and would rev to about 5200.  I know of a couple others that will run in the 5K range with nothing more than a stock pump and have been going for many years and hundreds of hooks.
 
 


Edited by wi50 - 14 Jan 2011 at 1:58pm
"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"
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mlpankey View Drop Down
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Vols country
Points: 4580 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2011 at 4:17pm
I never ran one over 6000 rpm and 72lbs of pressure on the seies 1 d17 pump. crank ran in three builds seven years still no cracks or bends .
no counterweights either Doug Rowe did a heck of a job for me on it.
Camshaft didnt have any troubles either but I made sure to use light stuff so 110 lbs of valve spring at the seat would keep valves from floating.


Edited by mlpankey - 14 Jan 2011 at 4:58pm
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ALinIL View Drop Down
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Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Location: Frankfort, IL
Points: 316 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ALinIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2011 at 4:52pm
wi50 - Have a question.  Since you are going with a new head, why not go to overhead cam.  Or is that not allowed.
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wi50 View Drop Down
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Joined: 24 Sep 2010
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Points: 1010 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wi50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2011 at 5:30pm

I want to stay with a "stock appearing head".  Just for any times that there are some rules, and it's nice to not raise to much questioning.  It's more fun to be the underdog.

I had the foundry make a head just after Christmas.  I picked it up last week and they did a wonderful job.   I have a friend with unlimeted machining capabilities that we trade a few favors now and then.  One of his engineers can do the program in a couple hours and then several hours of machine time.  I'll do all the finishing, but it's nice to have a multi axis machine cut the ports.  I don't know when I'll finish it, but it's destined for this engine.
 
I have an OEM head here that we set up at 7 deg in the mill, bored the intake runners completly out of it and installed tubes.  We offset the intake valves slightly to allow for a better flow pattern.  It's been sitting for a while but wanted to make a couple changes and check things again.  A lot of work but I hope it's all worth it.  I never put it on my small engine as I figured the block was just to weak, and the head is a poor match for that engine that.  That's why the engine on a late block is going togather.  The fireing order of these engines and a siamesed port are the limeting factors.  It's hard to get them to flow enough and then to overcome the breathing dynamics. 
 
There was a fella here that built a Moline with an overhead cam, alum head.  One heck of a nice job.  The tractor ran good, but it wasn't that tough, it was good for what it was, but it was just a small engine and poor combination to start with.  He has since built a big moline that is verry tough.
 
Maybe I can get some pictures up on here this weekend or at least next week of the head so you can see what it looks like.  I'm slow with the camera but I'll try and at least email them to somebody.


Edited by wi50 - 14 Jan 2011 at 5:32pm
"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"
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mlpankey View Drop Down
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Vols country
Points: 4580 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2011 at 5:38pm
Pushrods flex before the cam does .  A dry sump makes 17 percent more power than a wet sump.  10 percent more if ran with a vacuum pump and low tension rings . It would keep it from belching smoke at end of run. I have a nice drysump set up forsale  . Oil cccan with screen filters 5 stage pump 1200

Edited by mlpankey - 14 Jan 2011 at 6:43pm
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