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sampsonrepair 
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 Topic: Looking for D19 diesel engine parts
Posted: 07 Jan 2025 at 4:20pm |
I have a D19 diesel in my shop. It came in for a leaking head gasket. I am aware of the reliability issues with this engine. I have discussed these issues with my customer prior to tear down.
The head gasket is trashed. I can see nine cracks in the head without even cleaning it up. Sleeve protrusion is less than the .002" that everyone says is needed to keep head gaskets in these. I have checked Jensales (Reliance), Don's Diesel, and am waiting for a call back from Pfouts. Any leads on parts or other information relative to getting this thing back together is appreciated.
Also appreciated would be any information regarding determining whether or not this head is salvageable would be appreciated.
Thanks!
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DrAllis
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Posted: 07 Jan 2025 at 5:57pm |
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Cracks going to the energy cell don't hurt anything. They just keep growing slowly. If it wasn't losing any coolant before the head gasket failed the head is probably OK to use. The sleeves below flush is a bigger problem than the head at this point. I wouldn't fix it if I was you.
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sampsonrepair
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Posted: 08 Jan 2025 at 8:48am |
Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it. Most of the cracks are in the energy cell area. #1 and #6 are cracked between the valve areas. Coolant was leaking from the front and rear of the head. #6 has clearly been burning coolant, but I have no way of knowing whether it was currently burning coolant or whether this happened in the past.
Questioning the customer, he did not seem to think it was building excessive pressure in the radiator, but who knows.
The sleeves are essentially flush, definitely not the minimum .002 standout reportedly necessary to have a chance of keeping gaskets in it.
Time to have another serious conversation with the customer.
Does anyone know what is the best current advice in head gaskets for these? The cheap aftermarket gasket set everyone sells scares me just a little.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 08 Jan 2025 at 9:22am |
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Whatever you do, I would run it for a couple hrs or more at near full throttle with radiator covered to get it warm and in the green. Let it cool overnite. Retorque head bolts the next AM when COLD and adjust the tappets. I always painted the HG with copper coat years ago, but don't know what kind of gasket you can get these days.
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Macon Rounds
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Posted: 08 Jan 2025 at 9:24am |
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IMO
Don't put alot of money into it.
Typically the deeper you go into that engine the deeper you will have to go.
No current good fix for sunken sleeves.
Except expensive machine shop costs.....
Local AGCO dealer will not order crank bearings as they are not available thru them any more.
At least that was thier story in 2023.....
As a shop it's hard to address an engine like this.
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The Allis "D" Series Tractors, Gravely Walk behind Tractors, Cowboy Action Shooting !!!!!!! And Checkmate
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55allis
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Posted: 08 Jan 2025 at 10:09am |
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Get the head pressure tested, and while you have it there have them professionally check to see if the head is warped because that will cause/ cost a lot of problems.
I put an agco head gasket with good fire rings on my d262 and hylomar gasket sealer and haven’t had a problem with it. It also has 2 sleeves that it dropped under .002”.
I also put API studs to replace the head bolts also.
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1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45
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sampsonrepair
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Posted: 08 Jan 2025 at 10:27am |
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Agco head gaskets appear to be NLA, not seeing any OEM gaskets on Ebay either. Pfouts says he can get me an engine kit, need to determine if this is an early or late engine. He says he sells copper head gaskets to customers that are going to work these engines and the gaskets hold up. No fire ring, as I understand, not quite sure how that adds up, but that is what he is telling me. He also sells the ARP stud kits. If this engine goes back together at all, it will get the stud kit. Head bolts are junk, had to drill one out it was stuck in the head so badly.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 08 Jan 2025 at 10:35am |
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Push it outside and hope it gets struck with lightening. Ooops....wrong time of year......
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Ed (Ont)
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Posted: 08 Jan 2025 at 11:25am |
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Would a repower with gas be an option? If not using it a whole bunch or the cost of gas will kill you. They do make a nice show tractor or just to use on a snowblower or something like that.
Edited by Ed (Ont) - 08 Jan 2025 at 11:26am
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sampsonrepair
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Posted: 08 Jan 2025 at 11:38am |
You can buy a whole lot of gas for the $7 - $10 K this is going to cost to do it correctly. I'm not sure how many 262G engines are out there. I'm seeing one in Missouri, don't know the first thing about it. There is no sense repowering with a piece of junk that needs repairs.
From most of what I've read, the D19 gas wasn't a bad tractor.
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NEVER green
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Posted: 09 Jan 2025 at 8:41am |
 sampsonrepair wrote:
Agco head gaskets appear to be NLA, not seeing any OEM gaskets on Ebay either. Pfouts says he can get me an engine kit, need to determine if this is an early or late engine. He says he sells copper head gaskets to customers that are going to work these engines and the gaskets hold up. No fire ring, as I understand, not quite sure how that adds up, but that is what he is telling me. He also sells the ARP stud kits. If this engine goes back together at all, it will get the stud kit. Head bolts are junk, had to drill one out it was stuck in the head so badly.
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You will definitely need fire rings, I run copper head gasket on my puller, not impressed.
Sealtech can make you any size fire rings.
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2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50
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DrAllis
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Posted: 09 Jan 2025 at 8:52am |
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In my (puller) experience, the copper gaskets can be made to seal the compression (using welding wire in a groove) but they don't seal coolant well at all.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 09 Jan 2025 at 9:39am |
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The least expensive "good" fix, would be to find a head gasket with individual fire rings and have some custom-made fire rings .002" to .003" thicker than the OEM ones. This would make up for the (lack of) sleeve height. The old red or brown composition head gasket is fine. The OEM thickness fire rings with sunken sleeves are the problem. I would hylomar lightly around each coolant hole on both sides of the gasket.
Edited by DrAllis - 09 Jan 2025 at 9:40am
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55allis
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Posted: 09 Jan 2025 at 10:13am |
DrAllis wrote:
The least expensive "good" fix, would be to find a head gasket with individual fire rings and have some custom-made fire rings .002" to .003" thicker than the OEM ones. This would make up for the (lack of) sleeve height. The old red or brown composition head gasket is fine. The OEM thickness fire rings with sunken sleeves are the problem. I would hylomar lightly around each coolant hole on both sides of the gasket.
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I got my hylomar in an aerosol can… I sprayed the whole gasket and everything.
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1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45
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55allis
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Posted: 09 Jan 2025 at 10:16am |
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1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45
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sampsonrepair
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Posted: 09 Jan 2025 at 11:33am |
Thanks folks. Pfouts explicitly stated that the head gasket in his kits is of "not the best quality." He suggested his alternative copper gasket as an upgrade. I'm just not comfortable with it, especially since he states it has no fire ring. Maybe we aren't communicating well, I don't know.
Every photo of a head gasket set for this tractor looks the same. I suspect they all ARE the same, regardless of brand name. None appear to have separate fire rings. All are probably the same as the one that Pfouts says is "not the best." I have zero confidence in any of them, given the reputation of this engine.
The search is on for an OEM Allis / Agco head gasket. Current AGCO part number seems to be 74514398. Underlying manufacturer's part number appears to be 5330-00-947-4693, not 100% confident of that number. Failing that, I'm not sure about the cost-effectiveness of having a gasket custom made.
I'm not sure how I get myself into this stuff. It seems as if everything obsolete, rare, parts NLA, junk from the factory, etc makes its way to my shop.
I think this was the customer's grandfather's tractor, so that factors in here. I've told him either drag it out as is, slap it back together with no warranty whatsoever, or spend the big dollars to fix this old relic correctly. Cylinder head is in the machine shop for evaluation, and I'm not yet sure where the cards will fall on this one.
Question, will a 226 from a D17 bolt in? I'm not saying it's a good idea, just exploring all the possible options.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 09 Jan 2025 at 12:27pm |
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G-226 from a D-17 would bolt in. But, it will be three inches shorter. So, the fan and hoses and a lot of things will require modification to make it work. even the throttle linkage is on the other side of the engine.
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CAL(KS)
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Posted: 09 Jan 2025 at 1:56pm |
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Mack used to sell those fire rings, i have a set. But he is gone now.
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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sampsonrepair
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Posted: 09 Jan 2025 at 2:04pm |
Wow! Yes, I have read all about those fire rings on this forum, also figured out that Mack is no longer with us. He struck me as a powerhouse of Allis knowledge.
It sounds as if those fire rings are just the thing for getting these to hang together. Are you interested in parting with them? They worked with the OEM gaskets, did they not? Do you know if they worked with any of the aftermarket gaskets? Please advise.
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 09 Jan 2025 at 5:30pm |
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If you can find a decent gas 262 I believe you can use the block in your diesel application. The gas sleeves didn't sink like the diesels as I understand. With some tender care it could last a good while. Must warm well before use and have a cooling period before shut down.
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RedHeeler79
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Posted: 09 Jan 2025 at 7:40pm |
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From what I’ve gathered, the Reliance brand parts, particularly the head gaskets, are not the greatest quality. I’m rebuilding my D262 also, and it’s been a long process of extensive searching for NOS parts of various higher quality brands (specifically NOT made in china items) Check ebay for NOS parts, but try to be prepared with the original part numbers that you are looking for, and be creative in your searches. If i were trying to do this for a customer, I’d have been in the red a long time ago, in time spent researching parts alone. Hopefully you have luck in your search!
Edited by RedHeeler79 - 09 Jan 2025 at 7:51pm
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RedHeeler79
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Posted: 09 Jan 2025 at 7:45pm |
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55allis
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Posted: 09 Jan 2025 at 10:44pm |
This place has pretty good stuff but still doesn’t look like it has removable fire rings… Mack is a very missed guy he gave me a lot of advice on mine that can’t be replaced. He also had custom fire rings that could make up for the dropped sleeves. https://www.agkits.com/Allis-Chalmers-230-D230-Diesel-Head-Gasket-Set-Victor.aspx
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1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45
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darrel in ND
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Posted: 10 Jan 2025 at 5:15am |
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I too, have a set of Mack's fire rings on my shelf, but not ready to part with them. However, I am sure that Mack had them made. If someone could find out where they came from, or find a party that does make them, I would loan them out to use for a pattern.
Darrel
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DrAllis
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Posted: 10 Jan 2025 at 5:48am |
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The rings are often referred to as "Lacon rings" from a company in Lacon, Illinois. Located just east of Galesburg, probably 1 hour SE of the Quad Cities.
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pirlbeck
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Posted: 10 Jan 2025 at 8:08am |
I think most of the fire rings for tractor pulling come from Seal Tech in Oswego, IL. They will custom make them to the dimensions (ID or OD) you want, but I am sure the wire diameter is limited to what size wire stock they have available. I have ordered from them in the past and the service was good and prices were reasonable. It has been a few years but I am pretty sure they are still in business. Mostly used them for tractor pulling engines, but we did fire ring a couple of farm tractors with chronic head gasket issues when the owner didn't want to spend the money to repair the liner standout problem. 1-630-692-0633
1 (630) 692-0633
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sampsonrepair
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Posted: 10 Jan 2025 at 8:57am |
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I need to do some digging, I think Mack had the dimensions of his fire rings posted somewhere on these forums.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 10 Jan 2025 at 9:17am |
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I know someone on here tried a set of those and had a coolant leaking issue afterwards. I believe his sleeves weren't "sunk" but flush and Mack's fire rings were essentially too thick, for the gasket, not squeezing it enough to seal water ports.
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NEVER green
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Posted: 10 Jan 2025 at 10:37am |
Sealtechs fire rings can be bought in any thickness, I think 40 thou thicker then the gasket was enough crush?? The owner will tell you.
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Acdiesel
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Posted: 10 Jan 2025 at 10:46am |
I did use the gas block for my 262 diesel and so far its been fine on the Head gasket. That was 12 years ago.
Dan
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D19 Diesel,D17 Diesel SER.3
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