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Post Reply | Page <1 89101112 20> |
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tadams(OH)
Orange Level Access Joined: 17 Sep 2009 Location: Jeromesville, O Points: 9657 |
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that's a start should get better from here on.
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 29556 |
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I hope!!
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SteveM C/IL
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 7999 |
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You did loosen that plug on filter housing when priming right? Cant work the primer without it once some fuel gets in there. I bet you know this.
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 29556 |
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On Cats Electronic Engines it just recircs back to Tank, not as bad as the Old Tractor primer systems with mechanical injection. Gets to a Harder Stroke phase where can hear the check valve/Pressure Control valve lifting and system is primed, Pressure control has to locked tighter than Dick's Hatband!! Will await my pieces to peel this apart.
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SteveM C/IL
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 7999 |
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On my MXS I loosen that plug and pump till theres no more air bubble sounds in the tanks. Tighten plug,lock primer and if fires right up.
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 29556 |
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Well entire engine is coming OUT, been thru as much as can do in chassis, cannot locate low oil pressure internal leakage, Checked a known Clean rod journal and one I polished as had some metal transfer and both were within spec at less than .0063(Cat New Spec tolerance) by Plastigage. Oil pressure would not rise above 20# with a Reman Cat supplied oil pump and head would not oil so somewhere between Crankshaft and Head journal are losing over 45gpm. Engine will be stripped back to basic block and sleeves/pistons and rods. MAY leave crankshaft in and invert block to Plastigage two or three mains.
Engine driven pump is capable of 100gpm above 1200rpm at 40 psi. I could not get more than 12psi at idle(NO head lubricating) and 20psi at 1500 so shut it all down. Is now in process of engine removal.
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DougG
Orange Level Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Location: Mo Points: 7946 |
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Dam thats a bad deal
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BPM75
Orange Level Joined: 11 Jun 2011 Location: Greenup IL Points: 1050 |
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I've inframed several E models and C15s but has been several years. Before pulling the eng check to make sure all piston coolers are tight and not cracked or anything. I know it sounds crazy since they're just blowing oil out anyway but had this happen on an ISX Cummins. Just something to look at before pulling eng
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59 D17 gas nf, 66 XT 190, 69 220.
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 29556 |
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Already looked, did that inspection prior to bottom end closure as had that problem on a 855 Cummins eons ago. Was explained by a guy that routinely builds these that can have a complete main cap off or two cooling nozzles missing and oil pump will still provide spec oil pressure.
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BPM75
Orange Level Joined: 11 Jun 2011 Location: Greenup IL Points: 1050 |
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Gotcha! And yeah cats have a good oil pump in them. I don't recall ever having your issue on one, be interesting to know what you end up finding.
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59 D17 gas nf, 66 XT 190, 69 220.
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farmboy520
Orange Level Access Joined: 22 Jun 2016 Location: Beason, IL Points: 553 |
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Would it be the relief valve? I don't know if it has one, just trying help check everything.
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On the farm: Agco Allis 9695, 7060, 7010, R66, Farmall H, and Farmall F20 (Great Grandpa's)
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SteveM C/IL
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 7999 |
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Be a hassle but might it be worth rigging an independent pump connected and pressurize system with pan down to see if evident? Seems quite odd.
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 29556 |
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Used a pressure lube tank and Nothing with severe leakage present.
All this is from Piston Cooler Nozzles primarily. Perspective on sizes, Bolts are 9/16 head(3/8) Disch tube to L, Pickup to R and both 1 1/4" ID, Relief is the spring under the two bolt retainer, relieved oil would flow from the inside of the spring, this one remained seated at 60# Tank delivery.
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SteveM C/IL
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 7999 |
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Surely you used a good know functioning mechanical gauge? Maybe connected to a different port?
Never mind...you said metal transfer so low pressure sounds real. Edited by SteveM C/IL - 14 Sep 2021 at 11:20am |
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SteveM C/IL
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 7999 |
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I guess you had the pump apart? Be nice if had a way to bench test pump. Just throwing out ideas not questioning your smarts.
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 29556 |
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Spoke to Fabick, No bench tests where all they do is verify clearances and should be good to go. Relief is a simple as get, piston in a well, sene port to head of piston and side delivery exhaust ports that open against No D/P. The Spring is held down by a retainer and two bolts that draw in into tension as tightened from contact a full inch and a half. No Issues inside pump.
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SteveM C/IL
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 7999 |
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So you had pump apart and confirmed drive gear is affixed to driven shaft....this sounds like one of them "never seen that before "!
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 29556 |
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Pump hangs beneath the crankshaft, drive gear is keyed to the shaft and I put it on. Still on, pulled bolt Key still in slot.
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SteveM C/IL
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 7999 |
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I meant the gear on the shaft inside pump that the front drive gear turns. don't know if it's keyed/pressed or what.
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 29556 |
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Gear is the shaft in these, one piece, driven gear is on a stub shaft
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 29556 |
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Inspected the pump, Non Issue, then started on a tangent, Oil Cooler a friend of mine and the local Cat Shop foreman referenced to me.
Pulled bundle and oil filter head with Bypass valves in it. First note, Oil Cooler still full of Stinking Black Oil, showed negligible movement of oil thru the core, likely Choked, next up cooler bypass, seat destroyed from chatter, in both head and on poppet. so bundle was being bypassed. Answers two questions of the original Inspect, WHY oil starvation indications at rods 1&6 and Rocker Rollers, defeated pressure delivery by bypassing choked oil cooler.
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 29556 |
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Poppet on the Left seat mating face is eroded away, springs are supposed to be same but left again is one ring shorter(Possibly from heat/vibration) that the Right one.
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JohnColo
Orange Level Joined: 03 Apr 2020 Location: Niwot, CO Points: 1258 |
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I knew you would find the problem and make it work as it's supposed to. You are getting close, just might get her running and on the road before Chris's BB.
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 29556 |
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I should ONLY wish JCo, will be getting associated pieces together for this coming weekend where may manage to have it running again next week. Have all the suspension pieces now where can get that done HOWEVER still needs brake job, and a full set of rapidly becoming Unobtanium 11R24.5 tires!! Then body work, paint and inspect for license. Cab air ride height control may be acting up currently too, as also need final Exhaust Stacks/shields.
Closer than ever been but still lacking free time WITH money to get at it. Tire expense has added nearly half again since received the truck, gone from low/mid $300s to over $450 each tire IF can get in matched variety, that from a major local distributor. Brakes parts should be readily available. Will be replacing all the Air diaphragms with the maxi chambers on rears(4), all drums and shoe kits(Stop Boxes), will most likely replace at least the rear wheel air lines. FINAL pieces will be rear Full Fenders, mud flaps and light bar to rear, frame step platform(s) behind sleeper. Couple pieces of glass are questionable as are debris scratched heavily and may need to have the windshield seal rubber replaced.
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LouSWPA
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Clinton, Pa Points: 24021 |
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I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord; be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27 |
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 29556 |
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Done it many times, with another well attuned mechanic on the Other side of the glass, currently I have Me Myself and I along with The Wife, ain't gonna do it!!!
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 29556 |
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Replaced filter head, oil cooler bundle and got it all back together today, another 8 gal oil and refilled the coolant, 10# at idle 25# at 1400 rpm. Back to Cat on Monday, I am down to the Oil pump altogether now.
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 29556 |
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This is the Reman Pump, I have NEVER had a Free Spin pump that is this big, rated at 100gpm at 45psi, should take a wrench to rotate and has but MAYBE 25 minutes run time on it. It s NOT fastened to the bench.
Edited by DMiller - 03 Oct 2021 at 3:43pm |
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BPM75
Orange Level Joined: 11 Jun 2011 Location: Greenup IL Points: 1050 |
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I would say that's surely the problem, I've never seen one free spin like that!
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59 D17 gas nf, 66 XT 190, 69 220.
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 29556 |
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Every oil pump on any engine I had assembled when a mechanic had resistance to rotation this is nuts.
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