HD5 clutch yoke question

Did the grease fitting, still wobbles but at this point I'll run it the way it is and has been for many decades...Thanks for the suggestion!

INSTALL A GREASE FITTING IN THE YOLK AND GREASE IT OCCASIONALLY. MINE HAS ALOT OF SLOP AND THAT TAKES CARE OF THE WORST OF IT. OLD, LOUD, VIBRATING MACHINE, AREN'T THEY GREAT! I LOVE BOTH OF MINE!

Coke,

The shifter in my HD6G also has lots of slop in it. Will this advice to heron also apply to an HD6G?

So to clarify:

From the first drawing above (on page 2) the only thing connected on the engine side (clutch shaft) was #2 the yoke, and the hardware that holds the yoke onto the clutch shaft which is numbered #22, #23,#24 and #25? And the #24 bolt was tightened down? And even after all that you could wobble the #2 yoke around the clutch shaft by hand?

And by wobble I mean that the yoke can turn an elipse around the shaft. I would expect it to slide on loose, and maybe chatter when turned clockwise and counter clockwise around the clutch shaft due to cleance or wear between the yoke splines and shaft splines. But to me wobble of any huge amount that can be caused by hand even when the yoke and shaft are bolted together through thier centerlines (by bolt #24) indicates some kind of seriouse problem in that area.

If the above is true then something must be wrong. Im no Allis Chalmers expert but like you I have never seen a yoke wobble on it's shaft to any great degree. And even if it did, you would think that after bolt #24 was tightened down tight that it would be hard to get it to wobble just by hand.

All I can think of is that if they got bolt #24 mixed up with some other longer bolt that maybe when they tightened it the bolt hit the bottom of it's hole before it was able to cinched down the yoke to the shaft? Maybe that let the yoke move around enough that it wobbled itself out and then that wobble ruined the ujoint, or allowed something to bend?

A video of you wobbling the yoke on the shaft by hand would help. I would think it would let the real experts on these machines tell us if it looks like an acceptable amount.

My advice would be to get this wobble question figured out first and then move on to the ujoint next to see if it is also damaged.

Cheers,

Leo

Well if that machine has been in your family for that long then we got to get it fixed!

You mentioned in your first post that the yoke was way too loose on the clutch shaft. Can you tell us how you determined that?

I have been assuming that you pulled the entire driveshaft out, separated the clutch side yoke from the ujoint, and then hand fitted just the yoke on to the clutch shaft and then noticed at that point that it slipped on loose and wobbled? But is that what you actualy did?

I tried it today without the driveshaft attached and there was still a vibration but I don't think it's as bad. I did get the shaft back in but ran out of time to start it up. BTW: The clutch shaft was spinning because the flywheel clutch is stuck again. I'll have to start it in gear then see how the vibration feels once the clutch is broke free. I'm wondering if maybe the clutch assembly has so much rust maybe it's creating a vibration. Then again maybe it's just this 271 as it's not going to be smooth, I would think. We had this same motor in a Marco screening plant back in the 70's and I remember it vibrating quite a bit also. If you guys say the wobble and play is normal than so be it. 

Heron,

Are you sure that you have the hardware numbered 22, 23, 24, and 25? Are you also sure that #24 is tight. Im thinking that #24 might be missing, or perhaps it loosened itself over the years, especialy if no locktight was used.

Leo

Did the video link not work? Yes, perhaps the vibration could be coming from somewhere else but I haven't a clue. I'll recheck why my video is not working tomorrow. Thanks for taking your time.

I guess I exceeded how much I could put on one post so here is one more, not sure why it won't upload more. uploads/8354/IMG_20191026_142505896_2019-10-26_21-05-04.jpg

Edited by heron - 26 Oct 2019 at 9:11pm

Heron you dont have a runout spec, but the 8ndicator will still tell you a lot. You can tell which part of the conection is the worse (more slop) and then you can focus your efforts there.

I also remember seeing runout speccs for the clutch output shaft and transmission input shaft somewhere in the service manual, so if you have one then you could check that out.

Leop, Great idea with the play doh. I'll look into the dial indicator but without baselines I'm not sure how it will work. I'll make a video of the play although I'm not sure I can upload it.
Also, the joints are in phase.

So there would be no wobble in the shaft with the clutch engaged...? The reason I say this is because since this machine has been in the Southern humidity the flywheel clutch will seize up after sitting. I start it up in gear and it breaks free.
As far as the fit what you are saying is its normal to have the yoke not fit right in the shaft but that inner bearing is exacerbating the wobble. But, when I grabbed the installed driveshaft up by the yoke I could move it quite a bit and that was with the clutch "engaged" or stuck in my case. So maybe the bearing could be bad which started this issue. I'll dig into the manual to see how to check that bearing.

I have measured the splines for fit two ways.

Fist way is to steel some of my sons playdogh and push it into the splines. Then take it off and carfully unroll it on a table. Then use calipers and eye ball it.

The other way is to use drill bits. Identify the spline by taking rough measurments and then looking on line, or ask in one of the machinists forums if someone can look it up for you. Then with the true dimensions use a drill bit that touches all three sides of the spline. That and some advice on which size to use will confirm if the splines are worn.

That said, I have never seen splines so worn as to cause a wobble like you describe without also seeing obviouse signs of wear on the splines themselves. They are surface hardened, and they prety much wear only after you break through that surface hardened metal. When that happens it's obviouse.

Phasing as mention above or some other issue seams more likely to me. You could try cutting up some shims from an aluminium can. Make sure you use at least four at 0, 90, 180 and then tap the yoke on with a mallet. If it goes on easy then you have a problem. If not at all then you are good. If hard but on then see if the wobble is gone.

Coke-in-MN wrote: Like I mentioned the yoke is a slip fit onto rear of clutch housing . But also with clutch disengaged seeif there is wobble of the shaft in the throw out bearing inner housing where the brass sleve holds the shaft .  i got a different drive shaft off a parts machine I had and replaced mine as it was real lose on the clutch shaft . Never noticed a vibration in old one . Check your shaft to make sure it's not dented or bent to cause a imbalance or flexing in the joints .   According to the diagram above 5 and 6 are completely different units. To fit the bigger engine up against the HD6 they moved everything back - the HD5 and HD6 share the same rear housing but being the Budda was longer than a 2-71 things were changed in the power train

Go to harbor freight tools and get yourself an indicator. Check the shaft coming off the clutch side first. Then just keep checking parts as you work your way back towards the transmission side untill find where your runout is comming from.

Once you know which part is worn or bent pull it out and find an independent machinist in your area. An old cranky guy is usualy best. Explain the problem and he will fix you right up. These guys are a gold mine to America and keep old stuff working for a resonable cost.

Look up a guy on Youtube named Keith Fenner. He has many videos on finding and fixing slop and vibration on shafts.

Here are some economical indicators up to the task.

https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=Indicator

Edited by Leop - 25 Oct 2019 at 3:41pm