Engine Kit Consensus

I've ran into cracked sleeves with overbores on 201 and 226 engines. I liked Howard Enterprises. At least that's what I used to get when I worked at the dealership. They had quality stuff and the Allis kits were just like OEM at that time, 10 years ago. I don't know if they sell to anyone but businesses but if not you could get your local dealer to order from them.http://www.howardenterprises.com/

pay a little more get youre sleeves from melling and pistons from j@e ross wiseco or arias. you will have better stuff and know where it came from.

you can run as high as 15.1 compression and .550 lift with a flat top piston  easy I am doing it .Piston to valve would be hard to get with the dished pistons but even they dont come up flush to the deck . Cause you cant get a deep enough and large enough dish for the cc it takes to keep the compression ratio in check

Edited by mlpankey - 17 Apr 2010 at 6:57pm

I bought a kit From Jim on my CA, and bought many other parts from him. I will continue to buy from him.

Jim, I've run into two WD engines with overbore that cracked right in the o-ring area. Two sleeve in one engine. I don't believe the C/CA/B overbore sleeve would crack. They look a bit thicker than the WD overbore sleeve. I've never run into a stock sleeve that was cracked. The Allis dealership I used to work at wouldn't sell overbore kits at all. Only Allis standard bore kits. They'd sell aftermarket carb kits and other things but not engine kits. That's been my experience. It's my belief that the dished piston gives a better combustion and keeps the compression from blowing by the top ring. I think mlpankey might disagree about the dish. I read it in Mopar magazine awhile ago.

I'm not going to argue with you mlpankey. Just read it in Mopar once that the dish protected the top ring by taking most of the force to the center of the piston. 

The other what?

Wow... this really isn't what I was expecting...

Guys- I don't have a WD... I have a WC... a 201.  Inside surface of the cylinder head is flat, and when at TDC, the 'lip' of the piston is essentially flush with the deck.  I'm not sure how the WD engine is set up, but if I put a flat-top piston in here, and don't change the compression height, I'm betting I'll have compression ratio in excess of 30:1, and a bucket-full of broken rocker-arms and bent valves.

The concept of the 'power crater' design, from what I see, is that you get the advantage of a hemispherical chamber, the turbulence of a 'loop-charged' cross-flow engine, but with much simpler valve geometry and same-side intake and exhaust.

Regardless, what I'm looking for, is a suggestion of quality and point-of-origin of the various kits commonly advertised, as well as some insight into things to consider if I were to use the overbore.  Obviously, there's less material in the overbore sleeve, but apparently the later brethren of the WC ran larger bore and larger stroke with no problems.  I really don't know the differences between the WC and WD engines, and at this point, since I only have a B and a WC in my shop, the WD-related information is irrelevant.

I'm not interested in raising the CR or getting incredible horsepower out of this old girl- I want to be able to hand-start it, use it for calm chores, and take it to an occasional come-as-you-are show, without worrying about it raining oil or stranding me, and once I've got this engine back together, I'd like to be satisfied that I'll be dead and buried long before she needs to be opened up again.  The original pistons and sleeves lasted at least 50 years... I'd like to get a repeat longetivity from what I install.


Edited by DaveKamp - 17 Apr 2010 at 11:56pm

As far as cracked sleeves, if you over bore a stock 4'' sleeve to 41/8 it may crack because the outer OD is smaller through the middle of the sleeve for better cooling of the sleeve. The 4" uses different orings as the 41/8 which makes the area at the oring area thinner.

Dave, im not sure that you explained your motor quite right. The head is flat, but at TDC, the piston should be down maybe  3/4 inch from the top deck. THat forms the combustion chahber. As Jim said, you can raise the compression by chaning the wrist pin location in the piston so it might come up to 5/8 inch from the deck (this is a refenrece). That might raise your old 6 :1 compression motor to 7.5 :1 compression .... again, the above numbers are for explaination and not exact specs. YOu can also raise the compression with the crater or dish type... I would suggest getting a higher compression for your motor, but not going over 8 :1 compresion... you wil be happy.

 Dave, to answer part of your question , an agco kit is what I would use, but in your situation you might be served well with an after market kit. I would use the power crater pistons  with the right pin height for your crank. Forget about the crap thats being spouted about rings haveing any effect on compression ratio.  Compression ratio is the ratio of cylinder volume at BDC to cylinder volume at TDC.   Piston ring location is not and has not ever been  any part of the equation. The ratio would not change even if your piston had no rings.

   COMPRESSION RATIO is what YOU were writeing about,  Rings seal in pressure but they don't change the ratio , re-read YOUR post.

Ok my fellow engine building pupils lets help our classmate Garry out on page 50 of the link in orange . Which piston would have the higher compression ratio the one on the left or right?

Edited by mlpankey - 18 Apr 2010 at 2:10pm

Lonn wrote: Gary, you'll regret it. You can't win with him as he knows all. I usually don't get negative on the tractor site but I only can tolerate so much from a fool.  According to pankey volume means nothing. According to his statement, not his reference article, ring placement has more to do with compression than piston height. So a 4" tall piston running with a ring .100" from the top has more compression than a 6" tall piston with the ring .25" from the top or even 1" from the top with everything else being the same. That's how he comes off. His later posts he tries to change his statement comparing two pistons the same height but different ring placements. I'll say that his later post is right and his earlier post is foolish.  And mlpankey, there is more than one mindset working at Mopar as engineers and there is more than one magazine dedicated to Mopar and I don't know if any are owned and operated by Chrysler or Dodge or whatever they go by these days. What I read is what I read. I take it as more informative than you have been. You have only been rude and should go back to the political forum to let out your rudeness and aggressions. It's doesn't belong here. Good day.

wrong lonn volume is everything and its less or more depending on the first compression ring land is located on the piston.  You still haven't answered why mo par engineers ran domed instead of dished pistons in their performance oriented engines. Also my posts are on here will you show me where i wrote what you rewrote from your interpretation of my prior posts.

Edited by mlpankey - 18 Apr 2010 at 8:22pm

changing the wrist pin 1/8 inch in height will give a heck of a lot more compression. Moving a ring up on down the piston 1/4 wont effect compression much at all since the area is only .003 inch wide  ..... your not getting much volumn out of that small area.