This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity.
The Forum Parts and Services Unofficial Allis Store Tractor Shows Serial Numbers History
Forum Home Forum Home > Allis Chalmers > Farm Equipment
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


one wire alternator

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
Allis Fields View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Location: Reedsburg,Wisc.
Points: 332
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allis Fields Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: one wire alternator
    Posted: 12 Feb 2010 at 8:26pm
I saw a sight that had one wire alternaters for sale But I can't remember who had them. I know I need low inpadence, low rpm start and a 5/8 inch wide belt pully.
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Denis in MI View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Location: Norvell, MI
Points: 832
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Denis in MI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2010 at 8:41pm
I don't know about low impedance but most one wires I have seen require engine is reved to 800 to start charging like this one
1938 B, 1945 B, 1941 IB, 1949 C, 2 1938 WCs, 3 1950 WDs, 1951 WD, 2 1955 WD45, 1957 D-14
Back to Top
kinghunter View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 30 Jan 2010
Location: Kansas/Missouri
Points: 408
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kinghunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2010 at 8:45pm
i run 1 wire alternaters off 80 model chevy vehicles and dont change belts , had to make brackets for them but they work will post pictures tomorrow. have them mounted to my wd's d17,d19,and both 190's
Back to Top
DREAM View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Location: Elberton,GA
Points: 1828
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DREAM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2010 at 9:44pm
Yeah, what Kinghunter said. That's what I would do. I don't know about the RPM requirements. What is your idle speed?
Back to Top
kinghunter View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 30 Jan 2010
Location: Kansas/Missouri
Points: 408
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kinghunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2010 at 9:50pm
my idle speed is low and on them chev alternaters there laying around everywhere i dont know anyone who cant say they dont know where a 80 model is broke down or where they could get parts. and the alternaters are cheap at the junk yards.
Back to Top
Denis in MI View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Location: Norvell, MI
Points: 832
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Denis in MI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2010 at 10:00pm
I use the old delcos too but mine are rigged with two wires
1938 B, 1945 B, 1941 IB, 1949 C, 2 1938 WCs, 3 1950 WDs, 1951 WD, 2 1955 WD45, 1957 D-14
Back to Top
firebrick43 View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 10 Dec 2009
Location: Warren County
Points: 592
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote firebrick43 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2010 at 10:16pm
There were no OEMs that used 1 wire alternators.  The 80s chevy alternators that you are using are 3 wire but can be rigged with a short jumper to the positive post and one long wire to the battery.  I highly suggest actually hooking up all three wires.  It works much better and the posibility of the alternator discharging the battery when stopped is eliminated. 

Definitely don't do a 1 wire.  They are more expensive, the regulators are more fragile, and they cut in at higher rpms so you can be discharging the battery when you are putting around.  Also they don't put out the proper 14.7 volts to the battery with longer wires.

A 3 wire sense and maintains 14.7volts constantly.  Its very much worth the time and effort to hook up 2 more wires and a diode. 
Back to Top
LouSWPA View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Clinton, Pa
Points: 24345
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2010 at 11:01pm
I just use a double pole switch for the ignition switch. one side is for the exciter wire for alternator, and other side is for ignition. One wire alt's are OK, but plane old GM alternators are dirt cheap at NAPA, and work well with my crude, but effective method.
Back to Top
Gerald J. View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton Co, IA
Points: 5636
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 12:56am
14.7 is too much voltage for long battery life. 14.2 is best.

Gerald J.
Back to Top
dannyraddatz View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Plainfield, Ill
Points: 848
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dannyraddatz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 5:52am

Here is some information off a web site follow the link at the bottom. Steve from B&B is a forum member and could help you on this project. This information should help you get started but give Steve a call for the final parts and help Steve@B&B B&B Custom Circuits Newton, NJ

One-wire 10SI:

The Delco SI 1-wire has its uses. It is used on agricultural irrigation engines and in marine applications. It has been used on automobiles and other vehicles because it's easy to install and does not require a pigtail connector. That's not to say the 3-wire is difficult to install. The pigtail connector is available and will give access to the superior regulation provided by the alternator's solid-state voltage regulator. The one-wire cannot "sense" and adjust its output to provide a constant vehicle operating voltage depending on the load demand. The one-wire is a good fit for an irrigation engine that runs at one speed, has a constant load, and constant demand. An external relay must be used with a 1-wire to operate an idiot light in the dash. One-wire alternators also have "turn-on" issues because it must self-excite using residual magnetism in the iron parts of the alternator. If there is magnetism in the parts and the alternator is run up fast enough then enough power is produced to excite the alternator and it will ramp up the output. If it sits so long that no magnetism remains then that does not happen. The one-wire sitting idle will drain a battery over time. The 1-wire is not the better choice for engines that may sit idle for long periods, may be operated only at lower engine RPM's, use a dash light, engine RPM routinely varies, or where blower motors, headlights and other load demands come and go. My Ford tractor idles at less than 400-rpm and normally operates just over 1500 so I would always have to be certain to rev up a self-excite, 1-wire alternator so it would begin to output regardless of how I will otherwise operate the tractor. I don't mean to take anything away from the one-wire alternator but the standard three-wire is a more sensible alternator for most any application. One-wire alternators are also more expensive and not as readily available.

The 3-wire will always turn-on at the lowest possible RPM because it is excited by the battery voltage via the ignition switch to the alternator excite terminal right from the get-go. The 63-amp 10SI won't put out amps until 1,000+RPM but it is turned on and ready once the switch is on. The 3-wire with a diode in the excite wire will give you the lowest RPM turn-on possible and eliminate any battery-draining leakage current during long down times. The 3-wire hook-up is straight forward with one wire going no farther than the alternator itself. The 10SI alternator wire harness with the DA-plug makes it a snap to wire up the alternator. The harness also makes it simple to keep the dash light in the circuit. No additional resistor is required when using the diode. The 63-amp 10SI begins charging at a lower RPM than any other size (amperage) 10SI, even the lower amp 10SI's. Big plus when using the diode is that it allows you to continue using an OEM on/off key-switch. You can use the standard 10SI pig tail if you have an off/on/start/run ignition switch so you can isolate the alternator from the battery by connecting the alternator to the accessory terminal.

Belts, pulleys, and brackets:

Modern belts do not fit older vehicles so the pulley that comes with a standard 10SI will not match many early model vehicles and engines. Vintage autos likely have at least a 1/2" wide crank and water pump pulleys and agricultural or industrial engines may have 5/8" or larger pulleys. To get the 12-volt conversion right means you need to measure the pulley on the crank or water pump and install the proper wide-belt pulley on the alternator. My pulleys are small diameter so to get that alternator up to speed at lower engine RPM. Don't measure the existing v-belt because no telling how that type and size belt came to be on your engine; measure the pulley. There is a lot to v-belts and running the improper belt can be no end to problems and premature failure. You also pay for a belt/pulley mismatch in horsepower (mileage). You can find most vehicles' belt size on this parts interface look-up. Note: after completing the type, make, model, year selection, keep clicking on the part number until you get a pop-up Product Detail which shows Top Width (In.).

I list brackets for most applications but if you have something else again then let me know what and why and see if I can fix you up. Compare fit and function to your project and you will see this 12-volt alternator conversion thing isn't going to be such a big deal. My products are heavy-duty, high-quality, and nearly all of it is made in the USA. You need a good, hard mount or the belt will slip under load so you won't get a good charge and you will wear and throw belts.

http://www.kansasselectproducts.com/12V%20Conversion%20Guide.htm






Edited by dannyraddatz - 13 Feb 2010 at 6:56am
Danny Raddatz
Back to Top
Dave A View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Almond Wisconsi
Points: 855
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dave A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 6:40am
I use the one wire alternaters here at work, on the fork lifts. It in a easy conversion, and I don't have to work with old school voltage regs. Have used the the two wire Delco with no problems. I like them on equipment that sits for a while, then is used. The one wire units have a small currant draw and over time the batteries wil go dead. Also make sure it is a Delco there are some off brands that look like Delco's. But like to give problems
Play the game for more than you can afford to lose... only then will you learn the game.
Winston Churchill
Back to Top
Don(MO) View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Bates City MO.
Points: 6862
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don(MO) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 7:10am
There is a link to the best wiring setup I have seen for a 12 volt with a alt, It's from Bryan Smith's web site. He has lots of good INFO on there.
Thanks Bryan.
Here is the INFO he has on his site.
Don
 


Edited by Don(MO) - 13 Feb 2010 at 7:14am
3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep.

Back to Top
Don(MO) View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Bates City MO.
Points: 6862
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don(MO) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 7:27am
Hey Danny did you make your top bracket?
Don
3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep.

Back to Top
Steve in NJ View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Andover, NJ
Points: 11885
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 8:00am
Couldn't say any better myself. Good article. Hits right on what I've been telling our AC family here for the past 6-7 years. Three wire units are the way to fly for Tractors, and low rpm applications. Leave the 1 wire units to automotive applications where 1200-1400 rpm's to excite the unit is not an issue... Thanks Dan the man for the referral also! If I can help anyone out with a wiring system or components, just drop me an e-mail or give me a call. Be glad to help you out!
Steve@B&B Custom Circuits            (973) 632-5596
Back to Top
Max(ia) View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Location: Polk County,Ia
Points: 536
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Max(ia) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 8:55am
Both my WC and D15 II have one wire units.  Both have to be revved up in order to get them to charge.  Both will drain the battery over time  so the WC has a pull switch to cut the circuit, D15 has a knife switch on the battery terminal.  Not my conversions.   Not a very good setup as far as I'm concerned... 
Back to Top
Don(MO) View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Bates City MO.
Points: 6862
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don(MO) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 9:34am
Hey Steve, If there was a relay wired up with the power for the one wire Alt that was powered up by the key switch and the main power for the Alt ran from the AMP gage or volt gage through the relay will that stop the battery from draining down?
Just thinking again ( I know that's how I get in trouble) I don't think a lot of a one wire units.
Don
3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep.

Back to Top
boscoe View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Location: ND
Points: 165
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 11:05am
Tha ks SDteve and Danny for good info if I have any issues with my switch I be callin ya, I recently was in fleet farm and bought a single wire delco because they said that was the one to replace my 3 wire that didnt work anymore, knowingn what I do now, UF-DA what a mistake. It was 34.95 I dont think they will let me return it, bur I will ask.
Back to Top
fixer1958 View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 13 Feb 2010
Location: kansas
Points: 2434
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fixer1958 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 11:06am
The first alternator I used was a old AC Delco (35 amp) and put a self exciting regulator in for $40 15 years ago. The only problem I had with that one was I had to run it at full throttle to kick it in. It finally bit the dust.
I found a 1 wire alternator at Napa for $40. Charging kicks in as soon as I start it,
Much better now.
Same as the ones on the web for #150+.
Back to Top
boscoe View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Location: ND
Points: 165
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 11:47am
Currently I have a 1 wire 63A delco, 1 wire  from alt going to main power solenoid ,one wire  from solenoid going to volt gauge. 
Back to Top
boscoe View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Location: ND
Points: 165
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 2:25pm
What abour volt meter can I run from alt to volt meter to switch?
Back to Top
Steve in NJ View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Andover, NJ
Points: 11885
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 8:21pm
Absolutely. In my 12V conversion systems, I use only a Voltmeter. I use the Voltmeter as a junction from the Alternator. The key switch is wired to the Voltmeter. This way, the key switch controls all power on board the Tractor, and there will be no parasitic draw. When the key switch is off, everything is off. When the key is turned to the ON position, it powers up everything on board the Tractor. Simple and effective!
Steve@B&B
Back to Top
pineyjd View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Southern NJ
Points: 100
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pineyjd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2010 at 7:43am
Did not know about drain on battery, my D10/I40 has a chevy 1 wire alt on it & battery is always going dead when it sits without trickle charger
Back to Top
boscoe View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Location: ND
Points: 165
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2010 at 8:16am
Steve and others, Alternator to volt meter, voltmeter to switch, switch to coil, don't I need a wire to go to solenoid to charge battery?
Back to Top
Burgie View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Scottsburg, IN
Points: 1192
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Burgie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2010 at 8:33am
I`m going to put one on the WC Puller.Put a switch on it so it won`t charge when pulling or when parked.The pulley on the one from Steiner`s will charge at a lower rpm.
"Burgie"
Back to Top
Steve in NJ View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Andover, NJ
Points: 11885
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2010 at 11:03pm
The Battery will get its power through the Ignition switch providing you run your Battery feed to the Ignition switch from the starter motor. This is how I designed my 12V conversion systems, so the Ignition switch controls all power on board the Tractor so there is no parasitic draw on the system. The Ignition switch takes the Battery out of the loop when the switch is OFF.
Steve@B&B
Back to Top
Dave(inMA) View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Grafton, MA
Points: 2398
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave(inMA) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2010 at 9:30am
My D14 has a one-wire alt on it with the original ammeter. Not sure how it's wired, but I've never noticed that the battery is drained or weak, even though it's mostly used for clearing snow. I do have to run the rpms up once after I start it to get the alt to work, but then it's fine on its own.
 
Steve - do you mean that the line from the alt runs to the post on the starter so that power runs back through the ignition switch to the battery when switch is in the "run" position?
WC, CA, D14, WD45
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.


Help Support the
Unofficial Allis Forum