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EPALLIS 
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Illinois
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 Topic: Allis Chalmers 821 Power fluid
Posted: 15 Oct 2025 at 7:39pm |
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My AGCO dealer always sends me what the good Dr mentioned. AGCO 821XL Permatran. They told me it is to be used for hydraulic and transmission in the Allis-Chalmers D series. WD as well. The color is gold.
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Ben (MI)
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Joined: 02 Jun 2010
Location: SW Lower MI
Points: 769
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Posted: 14 Oct 2025 at 1:41pm |
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Oops sorry, fat fingers here.
Edited by Ben (MI) - 14 Oct 2025 at 1:43pm
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Part time farming with a 1980 7060 and 1984 F3 hydro.
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Cliff
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Joined: 13 Oct 2025
Location: Mississippi
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Posted: 14 Oct 2025 at 1:02pm |
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Thanks Steve!!
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steve(ill)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
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Posted: 14 Oct 2025 at 12:59pm |
I think the 5015 came originally with 15W40 in the trans / hydraulic system.. That is engine oil, so the system must be pretty basic. Any hydraulic oil would be an improvement over engine oil, in my opinion.. Hyd oils have anti foam and anti wear addatives for pumps and valves. Engine oil is made as a bearing lubricant.
That being said, i think the PRIME GUARD "general purpose" does not list any SPECS. It is the cheapest type of hydraulic fluid you can buy.. Not saying it might not MEET any specs, but they didnt test it to verify and LIST ON THE CONTAINER.... I would go with a PREMIUM that lists a few specs like 821, TO2, etc
Edited by steve(ill) - 14 Oct 2025 at 1:04pm
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Cliff
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Location: Mississippi
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Posted: 14 Oct 2025 at 12:24pm |
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Will Prime Guard 20w general purpose oil work as a 821 substitute in a 5015 ?
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Tbone95
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Location: Michigan
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Posted: 20 Dec 2022 at 9:44am |
 Jim.ME wrote:
"Vintage" oil is a marketing ploy, and not always less expensive, at least to the buyer, as you noted. Do a bit of research and I believe you will find the "modern" oils/fluids are backwards compatible to the "older/vintage" ones. Why would a manufacturer want to add more products to stock and deal with, other than in the cases where the product was going into new hardware that is not similar to existing. John Deere doesn't sell 303 Special Purpose Oil, J14A Hy Gard, J20A Hy Gard, the current J20C covers all of them. Same applies to the AGCO fluids I believe. Look at the manufacturer specs an oil/fluid covers and go with the newest. And if you cannot find the specs for a product on the container, or a Product Data Sheet for it, I suggest avoiding use of said product. |
Backwards compatible, yes, exactly my point earlier as well! Agreed!!
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JohnColo
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Posted: 20 Dec 2022 at 1:10am |
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I bought 10 five gallon buckets of TSC Premium universal oil for $10.32 per gallon, including tax. It was on sale for $15 off per bucket plus $5 off for 10 or more buckets. I know I'll use it, unless I croak, and then someone will get a good deal on a bunch of oil! I've been using the T6 in my Cat powered Freightliner, seems to start easier and still has decent oil pressure after it's hot. I just use regular 15w40 in the other equipment as they aren't started when the temps are cold.
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Jim.ME
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Joined: 19 Nov 2016
Location: Maine
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Posted: 18 Dec 2022 at 6:05am |
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"Vintage" oil is a marketing ploy, and not always less expensive, at least to the buyer, as you noted. Do a bit of research and I believe you will find the "modern" oils/fluids are backwards compatible to the "older/vintage" ones. Why would a manufacturer want to add more products to stock and deal with, other than in the cases where the product was going into new hardware that is not similar to existing. John Deere doesn't sell 303 Special Purpose Oil, J14A Hy Gard, J20A Hy Gard, the current J20C covers all of them. Same applies to the AGCO fluids I believe. Look at the manufacturer specs an oil/fluid covers and go with the newest. And if you cannot find the specs for a product on the container, or a Product Data Sheet for it, I suggest avoiding use of said product.
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IBWD MIke
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Joined: 08 Apr 2012
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Posted: 17 Dec 2022 at 10:49am |
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I avoid all that 'bargain' universal tractor fluid.
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Pat the Plumber CIL
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Springfield,Il
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Posted: 16 Dec 2022 at 9:30pm |
Seen this stuff at local Farm and Home store today . 49.99 for 5 gallons. The "modern" stuff that is for tractors manufactured after 1989 is 39.99 for 5 gallons 
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You only need to know 3 things to be a plumber;Crap rolls down hill,Hot is on the left and Don't bite your fingernails
1964 D-17 SIV 3 Pt.WF,1964 D-15 Ser II 3pt.WF ,1960 D-17 SI NF,1956 WD 45 WF.
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DougG
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Posted: 16 Dec 2022 at 3:20pm |
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Was loading manure with it, had just changed the hyd system and put this Travlers in ; after about an hour the hydraulics got slower , pump started to get real hot ; finally quit , changed the oil back to Pure-Flo 334 and seemed to work better , this was about 8 years ago
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Bruce(IA)
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Posted: 16 Dec 2022 at 11:51am |
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Cenex HTB is green colored
That makes it easy to tell if it’s motor oil or hydraulic oil when it leaks
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SteveM C/IL
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Shelbyville IL
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Posted: 15 Dec 2022 at 9:24pm |
DougG wrote:
In my opinion - Travelers from TSC is junk , way to thin when hot - my 6060 sure didnt like it |
Please explain how you determined it too thin when hot and what it did to you 6080
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SLee(IA)
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Location: Polk City, Iowa
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Posted: 15 Dec 2022 at 8:24pm |
Thought I would add my 2 cents. I have been using Cenex oil, grease and fuel for over 40 years. I have always believed using high quality oils and fuel is the most economical way to keep equipment running problem free. I use Qwiklift HTB (their "universal hydraulic oil") and filled my bulk tank in July for $17.66 per gallon. Their diesel engine oil is Superlube TMS 15-40 and my cost was $18.38 per gallon. I copied and pasted the following from the fact sheet on their website.
"Energy
Petroleum, refining and pipelines
• Owns refineries at Laurel, Montana, and
McPherson, Kansas, with a combined
175,000-barrels-per-day processing capacity.
• Accesses crude oil for our refineries and move
product to the marketplace through more than
2,000 miles of pipeline.
• Provides a dependable supply through
400 million gallons of storage at CHS refineries
and 23 CHS-owned product terminals."
They do have a warranty program on new equipment using their oil. I did sign up for it on two tractors I bought new but of course, I had no claims. Steve
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randy
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Location: Illinois
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Posted: 15 Dec 2022 at 8:13pm |
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OK I got to ask, whats the Green Stuff?
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CA WD WD45 D17 D17 Diesel 7060 8050 8070
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steve(ill)
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Location: illinois
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Posted: 15 Dec 2022 at 7:25pm |
Travelers Premium UTF is a 10 w 30 oil.... so should have a viscosity of a 30wt when hot...That is normal for the "newer" oils, and thicker than the old 20wt spec...
Dont know what happened to your Doug.... but it should be OK. The multi viscosity gives it a range of below zero and up to 350- 400 degree range on the top end... That rates up there with the best of them.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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DougG
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Posted: 15 Dec 2022 at 7:05pm |
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In my opinion - Travelers from TSC is junk , way to thin when hot - my 6060 sure didnt like it
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Northern Hoser
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Posted: 15 Dec 2022 at 1:38pm |
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Given there are many choices of "compatible" 821 fluids out there maybe it's easier to come up with what not to use.
Has anyone had a bad experience using off brand universal fluids in a PS transmission? Should it be synthetic or conventional?
I've gotta change mine soon, looking at Klondike brand here in Canada.
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Clay
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Posted: 15 Dec 2022 at 1:22pm |
The additives make the most difference between brands. The producers of oils blend specific additives to oil blends to meet the specifications of various brands.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 15 Dec 2022 at 8:25am |
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Jim... i tend to agree with you, but i can not prove it.. If they SAY it is RECOMMENDED for the various Equip, i take their word for it, and buy that... Especailly if you can get a 5 gallon bucket for $60. compared to $30. a GALLON .... and as you said, JD and CASE are NOT making their "special" oil..
Edited by steve(ill) - 15 Dec 2022 at 8:26am
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Jim.ME
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Posted: 15 Dec 2022 at 7:47am |
steve(ill) wrote:
one thing that bothers me about CENEX and a few others is they state "WE RECOMMEND USING OUR OIL IN THESE APPLICATIONS"..... It does NOT say they are APPROVED by the Manufacturer or RECOMMENDED by the manufacture... It may well be a good oil .. but i would prefer to see "APPROVED FOR" instead of "WE" Recommend. |
Semantics in play. It is very doubtful you will find any manufacturer (that markets their own line of oils/fluids) actually approving an aftermarket product for use in place of their OEM fluid. For those aftermarket products claiming they are approved or recommended for use by a manufacturer, the aftermarket supplier is likely basing that claim on their product meeting a manufacturer's minimum spec, not that the equipment manufacturer has actually approved their product. Basically, implied approval. In some manner the aftermarket product stating, "WE RECOMMEND USING OUR OIL IN THESE APPLICATIONS", and listing specs it meets is more truthful than claiming the product is approved for use.
Here is John Deere's statement regarding other fluids from their Hy Gard page. "John Deere does not monitor competitive or "will fit" oils. While claiming to meet John Deere requirements, it is possible that the competitive or "will Fit" oils do not meet even the minimum performance requirements for John Deere Machines, which could result in premature failures. Note: An industry classification for hydraulic/transmission
oil does not exist. Each manufacturer establishes a minimum requirement that
oils should meet for use in their equipment." I expect if you research this, you will find the same type of disclaimer from all manufacturers including AGCO. I would be interested in seeing a listing directly from AGCO, and other equipment manufacturers showing the aftermarket oils/fluids they have approved for use in place of their OEM products.
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Tbone95
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Posted: 15 Dec 2022 at 7:41am |
I guess if all you own is Allis, all you ever use is your own implements, never borrow or rent anything, flush everything out and put in the "latest" 821, then OK. We run a couple different colors of tractors. Have had hydraulic cylinders in use for over 50 years, have borrowed some of a friend's equipment, borrowed his tractor, rent an applicator from time to time. So, what? Should I change all my fluids afterwards? Including any cylinder that might have been hooked up in the meantime?
Our nearby New Holland dealer is also a Kubota dealer. We went to buy some universal oil one time. They said, you want New Holland or Kubota oil? I dunno, what do I want? (and yeah, obviously neither of them is making oil). Well, the Kubota is way cheaper and the same stuff, and we have it in 55 gal drums even cheaper! Bingo. . . So, I've also bought Traveler stuff, 5 gal buckets when I out of the barrel and not nearby the NH dealer. Dad offered, do I want him to get another 55 gal of the Kubota? Might as well, . . .turned out the Travelers in 5 gal was way cheaper than the Kubota in 55 gal now. WAY cheaper. So unless I see a sale on something, I buy the travelers. (and try to fix leaks, cuz holy crap it's all expensive!)
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 14 Dec 2022 at 8:34pm |
I was thinking Traveler is a Warren product.
Steve...maybe they were referring to plain 15w40 dino not the full synthetic? Could still be BS.
Edited by SteveM C/IL - 14 Dec 2022 at 8:37pm
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 14 Dec 2022 at 7:24pm |
Troy.. i have nothing against CENEX UTF... It "SEEMS" to meet all the specs according to THEIR opinions.. Probably no different than Travelers, or the Green stuff they sell at the Farm Store..... My problem is that i would say it is NOT worth $30. a gallon... you can get the "OTHER" top quality, Premium oils for $50-60. a 5 gal jug..
Remember, 90% of these guys are NOT making the oil.... If it does NOT say Shell or MOBIL on it, then it is made by Warren or a couple other smaller suppliers who make it for everyone.
----------------- WARREN OIL COMPANY, LLC holds the distinction of having the largest number of American Petroleum Institute engine oil licenses and certifications. Warren manufactures and packages lubricants under several proprietary registered trademarks; e.g., Warren, Lubriguard, Autoguard, Itasca, Coastal, LubriGold and Saxon.
Edited by steve(ill) - 14 Dec 2022 at 7:36pm
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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jeickman01
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Posted: 14 Dec 2022 at 7:09pm |
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I was a parts and service rep for a major manufacturer at one time and then worked for dealers until retirement. If it were my tractor I'd stick with the latest version of 821. I, of course, can't speak for all manufacturers but I know that the one I worked for pushed the oil suppliers for powertrain/hydraulic oil formulations to address specific problems it had such as wet brake chatter. Engine oil which was thrown into this conversation is an entirely different issue in my mind because diesel engine oil requirements probably don't differ from one manufacturer to another except possibly what is driven by the Feds for on highway designs before it is required off road. I can't dispute someone's success with having used some off brand oil for years or with that brand stating that it meets certain manufacturer's specs. I do remember having been told during a tour in a Shell blending facility that off brand blenders don't take precautions for cost reasons of purging lines when switching between types of oil. But then maybe he was full of Chit.
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plummerscarin
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Posted: 14 Dec 2022 at 5:47pm |
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Does CENEX still offer a guarantee on repairs when using theirs?
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Bruce(IA)
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Posted: 14 Dec 2022 at 5:42pm |
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Go down to FSC. Get the green stuff. We have been using it for years. That’s what Robinson uses
I think Dean Hennigsen is the new salesman
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tthams
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Posted: 14 Dec 2022 at 5:22pm |
Wow, this is why I love this site. I always learn from the best. Thanks so much for sharing your experiences everyone. My local AGCO was recommending Cenex, and they only sold it by the 2.5 gallon jugs at $60 a jug. I will be shopping around after all the comments.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 14 Dec 2022 at 4:52pm |
And this is the CENEX site.. Does NOT say "MEETS".... says "we recommend"..
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 14 Dec 2022 at 4:42pm |
AS i mentioned in one of the previous posts, may of the "after market" Universal Tractor Fluids list 30 specs on the back of the bucket... Many of them say "RECOMMENDED FOR xxx" ....They do not say "MEETS OR EXCEES MANUFACTURERS SPEC".... so it is the OIL COMPANIES opinion that they oil is "as good as xx" ........ When you buy HYTRANS, you are getting that guarantee.. ( i think).
This is from the CASTROL Page on Universal Tractor Fluid --- again, i might just be "words"... i have no way of knowing.
Edited by steve(ill) - 14 Dec 2022 at 4:48pm
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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