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CHIT,,,I gots another puzzler,,,,

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desertjoe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: CHIT,,,I gots another puzzler,,,,
    Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 8:15pm
 My hot water heater went out last Tuesday and I went out and relit it and it started with no issues,,,I thought,,,, that night it went out again, so I go to relight and the PILOT  will NOT light so burner won't light  either,,, Tried several times but NO Dice,,!I call Rheem as heater still has 3 years left on warranty and they had me run some tests and determine the ignitor is bad,,? She told me they could send me a new ignitor for $28 as ignitor not covered under warrantee OR, she can send me a NEW Gas Control Valve WITH a new ignitor for FREE as CV IS under warrantee and if I want express 2 day shipping by FEDEX for $30,,,,SO as my momma did not raise any fools I told em to send fastest way possible. I got the new CV that very next day!!!! FEDEX is amazing,,is all I can say!! I installed the new CV and had to light it 3 times before PILOT would stay lit,,finally get it lit and raise water temp and big burner came on , waited 3 mins and then adjusted the heat to HOT. As I was re-installing the covers and all,,,the frigging main burner went out!!
 IThis SAME thing happened several times as main burner would not stay lit for more than 3 minutes!! So I call RHEEM again and she had me do some more tests on the TRD but that was OK!  She checks with their tech dept and she says the thermocouple on main burner "may be" bad,,,,???  Remember this is the brand NEW CV they just sent me,,
 My thoughts now is maybe a blockage in the propane line to heater,,??  !! Maybe even the gas shut off valve,,,?? I checked the propane tank and it has 55% full,,,,WTF,,,??  The info tag on the water heater says it needs  11.2 to 12.6 on 14"WC   ????
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JW in MO View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JW in MO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 8:57pm
Is the air intake plugged in any way.  My thoughts are either the holes on the side are plugged up or an over temp safety tripping but I would think an over temp would be manual reset.  Been out of it too long I guess, we always set the regulators to 11" and no more, with the burner running.
Did your son send you this too?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 9:04pm
 All Right JW,,,that's enough,,,,LOLLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 9:05pm
the thermocouple has to stay HOT to keep the gas valve open for the flame. Normally the pilot light is plenty big enough to heat the thermocouple.. Make sure the thermo is IN THE PILOT FLAME or real real close.... If the pilot dont stay lit, 90% of the time it is the thermocouple.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 9:07pm
pilot should light as you HOLD DOWN on the red button and keep the gas flow going... Takes a minute to heat up the thermo so it will HOLD THE VALVE OPEN to get the gas flow.. If the pilot lights, then goes out when you take your finger off the red button, then the thermo is not working right.

if the pilot dont light, your out of gas.


Edited by steve(ill) - 16 Jan 2023 at 9:08pm
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Michael V (NM) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Michael V (NM) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 9:32pm
JW may have the answer,something like that happened to my water heater , i cleaned up that screen around the bottom(didn't look clogged, but I guess it was) and wa-la,, it started working again
this is some kind new safety chit on this new-fangled crap... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC-WI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 1:19am
Yea, that screen is made to not let gas through it... unreal. Gotta have the screans absolute clean for air to flow...
 Ever see the lint screen in a dryer so plugged up that it will pool water in a clean looking lint screen? about the same principle on the draft screen. It has to be absolute clean to let air through.
  Some of the high energy efficient appliances have an ignitor that glows to start the flame... and it has to have draft fan blowing or it won't light... if it is one of them, there again, gotta have everything clean, even that igniter since it acts as a sensor after the burner starts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 4:38am
Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 5:18am
Cleaned carbon buildup and changed more thermocouples than anything else over the years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote plummerscarin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 6:04am
Cleaned the igniter on shop boiler prior to heating season this year. Solved all my fail to ignite codes from last year. Didn't look dirty but it doesn't take much on these newer appliances to go in to fault lockout. Have seen many instances of lockout where a cat litter box or some cleaning supplies nearby triggered a fume sensor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 6:59am
ummmm...
thinking outside the box.....

any chance you got and installed a NATURAL GAS  valve shipped to you and not a PROPANE one ???

I know they ain't the same inside even though they look the same outside...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dusty MI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 7:28am
Dumb question.
 Why do people call that appliance a "HOT WATER HEATER? Why do you heat hot water?
 It's only a Water Heater.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 8:44am
Originally posted by JC-WI JC-WI wrote:

Yea, that screen is made to not let gas through it... unreal. Gotta have the screans absolute clean for air to flow...
 Ever see the lint screen in a dryer so plugged up that it will pool water in a clean looking lint screen? about the same principle on the draft screen. It has to be absolute clean to let air through.
  Some of the high energy efficient appliances have an ignitor that glows to start the flame... and it has to have draft fan blowing or it won't light... if it is one of them, there again, gotta have everything clean, even that igniter since it acts as a sensor after the burner starts.

Yeah, JC,,that was step #3 ,,their service techs had me go thru a "procedure on what they call the TRD  which monitors the amount of "air" available to the pilot and burner and I had to remove the burner assy and there is a tiny glass filled chingas with some black colored fluid and if the compartrment has the air intake blocked in the least amount,,,it will sshut off the gas flow,,,after all that work,,the TRD was OK,,,whew!! SO, now the techs are saying it is the thermocouple and I agree, so they are hot shotting me a new TC,,,I tell you,,trying to clean your ,,,ahem,,,,never mind,,,,LOL The new TC susspossed to be here tamarrow,,,,wish me luck,,,,Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 8:46am
Originally posted by Dusty MI Dusty MI wrote:

Dumb question.
 Why do people call that appliance a "HOT WATER HEATER? Why do you heat hot water?
 It's only a Water Heater.

  Dusty,,,you MY KIND of Guy,,,,,!!!!LOLClap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 8:50am
Originally posted by jaybmiller jaybmiller wrote:

ummmm...
thinking outside the box.....

any chance you got and installed a NATURAL GAS  valve shipped to you and not a PROPANE one ???

I know they ain't the same inside even though they look the same outside...

 Hey Jay,,,I don;t think so,, as the issue started wwith the original gas control valve so issue has been there and I agree with ole Steve and their techs in the TC,,cause it just makes sense when you throw out all the "possibles" only'ist thing left IS the TC,,,,?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 9:00am
 I am real impressed at the engineuity of the water heaters of today,,,,,The combustion chamber is "sealed with a thick rubber gasket on the burner assy and a glass window for viewing the pilot/burner assy. I was concerned that since the burner operation is dependent so much on a specifific amt of combustion air,,,and the heater sits right on concrete pad,,that it might not be able to get enough air and Rheem techs told me it is better if it sets right on concrete as I questioned of I should raise the heater to allow fo more air and they said,,,"NO",,,,I always used to be "concerned" when trying to light pilots on them old timer heaters as most times the flame on burner seemed to want to come out and bWinkWinkurn you,,,,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 9:04am
None of my water heaters have sat on Concrete since the 1990s, Old one back then died had small feet but rusted terribly sitting close to floor.  Plumber friend showed to use short lengths of PVC Pipe, 2.5" Dia is what have been using, to raise water heater up off the floor as little as 2" for allowance to clean under makes a world of difference even just to service.

Edited by DMiller - 17 Jan 2023 at 9:04am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Michael V (NM) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 10:34am
 tiny glass filled chingas,,, LMAO,,I haven't heard of "chingas" in like forever,,,
I think that has to be a NM thing!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 11:59am
Twice since 79 I have had the copper tubing between tank and regulator start shedding little bits of copper and plugging the regulator. Give the regulator a tap and things worked for some time. Keeps getting more often you that you needed to lit the pilots until I replaced the pig tail. I know being frugal it is hard think a copper tube that looks good could cause so much trouble, but twice it has. So if all else fails give the regulator a gentil wake and see if it works for a day or 2. 


My son bought a new water heater and had it warranted because it would not stay lit. Only when the second one gave a problem did I remember the pig tail failure 20 years before. But his problems went away with the replacement of the copper tubing. He had a heck of time getting a propane company to sell him the tube, as they want to get payed for a service call as it could leak and blow up. Two that where more handy than the company the generally has the best gas price refused. So I called and promised I had screwed a gas line together before and they sold us the tube. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 12:12pm
yeesh I'm geetin old


HOW can a gas water heater place get the home owner to do 'service let alone send parts like the BURNER and have him install !!!!
Up here you have to have a TSSA number just to BUT parts from a supllier !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 4:35pm
Joe....hangs you a black trash bag outside in the sun, when you need a shower, poke a hole in it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lars(wi) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 5:00pm
Originally posted by Ray54 Ray54 wrote:

Twice since 79 I have had the copper tubing between tank and regulator start shedding little bits of copper and plugging the regulator. Give the regulator a tap and things worked for some time. Keeps getting more often you that you needed to lit the pilots until I replaced the pig tail. I know being frugal it is hard think a copper tube that looks good could cause so much trouble, but twice it has. So if all else fails give the regulator a gentil wake and see if it works for a day or 2. 


My son bought a new water heater and had it warranted because it would not stay lit. Only when the second one gave a problem did I remember the pig tail failure 20 years before. But his problems went away with the replacement of the copper tubing. He had a heck of time getting a propane company to sell him the tube, as they want to get payed for a service call as it could leak and blow up. Two that where more handy than the company the generally has the best gas price refused. So I called and promised I had screwed a gas line together before and they sold us the tube. 

I could be mistaken, but was this the flexible copper tubing? If I recall, some jurisdictions have building codes against flexible copper tubing for gas usage.
I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 7:10pm
Ours requires Flexible Stainless or Hard Steel piping to either a Steel Flex or a Solid Coupler Union and Pipe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dusty MI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 7:27pm
Galvanized steel pipe coupled to copper pipe will cause the copper pipe to corrode and flake and leak and/or plug the orifice, when used with Natural Gas. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 10:37pm
I installed flex copper  5/8 tube from the propane tank, 50 ft into the house and split to the water heater, stove and furnace.......... that was 1980..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 11:29pm
Originally posted by Michael V (NM) Michael V (NM) wrote:

 tiny glass filled chingas,,, LMAO,,I haven't heard of "chingas" in like forever,,,
I think that has to be a NM thing!!

 YEAH ,,,Michael,,,I threw that one in there without a thought and yes ir prolly IS a New Mexico thing,,,,LOLLOLLOLClap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 11:32pm
Originally posted by shameless dude shameless dude wrote:

Joe....hangs you a black trash bag outside in the sun, when you need a shower, poke a hole in it!

  Shameless,,,,WHAT A GREAT IDEA,,,,!!! UMMmm,,,,UMMmmmmm,,,Shameless,,,You reckon I might oughta put some water in the bag,,,"First",,,,?LOLLOLClap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 11:43pm
Originally posted by steve(ill) steve(ill) wrote:

I installed flex copper  5/8 tube from the propane tank, 50 ft into the house and split to the water heater, stove and furnace.......... that was 1980..

 My place has 1/2" Steel pipe from main tank to house and to that wall oven, free standing stove and this water heater. The shut off valve is a 1/2" 3000#  1/4 turn valve that is VERY, VERY hard to turn. Since I am waiting on the new TC,  I have decided to replace this valve that most likely give me or my sons FITS some day,,,!! Hope that TC gets here SOON,,,Im tired of heating water in microwave just to wash my face,,,,! 


Edited by desertjoe - 18 Jan 2023 at 8:23am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pat the Plumber CIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2023 at 7:39am
Get rid of that Rheem and get a Bradford White water heater. Believe your screen in the bottom of the heater combustion chamber is not letting air flow like it should. A long skinny bottle brush and a skinny hose on a shop vac should be able to clean it up .Most water heaters only have a screen area of 4x10 for air to flow through. Bradford White uses the entire bottom of the combustion chamber as a screen. Screen is slanted fins at a 45 degree angle. In theory heavier combustible air will travel under and cleaner lighter air will flow into combustion chamber. If screens slow air down sensors will shut unit down. Also the gas valves on front of unit do fail. Can be a pain to figure out what's wrong. When I first started plumbing 35 years ago we only replaced water heaters when they burst or started leaking. Today 1/2 of the units I replace because I can't keep them running due to safety controls. But hey , when is the last time you heard of someone burning their house down from bringing gasoline in the house to wash parts.

Edited by Pat the Plumber CIL - 18 Jan 2023 at 7:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2023 at 11:32am
Well I cannot say for sure what the flex line between tank and regulator is made of but it is copper color. They have been made with gas in mind as the collars are left hand threads as a true gas line would be. The second one for sure came from propane company, the first one I just don't remember.
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