CHIT,,,I gots another puzzler,,,,
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=192949
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Topic: CHIT,,,I gots another puzzler,,,,
Posted By: desertjoe
Subject: CHIT,,,I gots another puzzler,,,,
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 8:15pm
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My hot water heater went out last Tuesday and I went out and relit it and it started with no issues,,,I thought,,,, that night it went out again, so I go to relight and the PILOT will NOT light so burner won't light either,,, Tried several times but NO Dice,,!I call Rheem as heater still has 3 years left on warranty and they had me run some tests and determine the ignitor is bad,,? She told me they could send me a new ignitor for $28 as ignitor not covered under warrantee OR, she can send me a NEW Gas Control Valve WITH a new ignitor for FREE as CV IS under warrantee and if I want express 2 day shipping by FEDEX for $30,,,,SO as my momma did not raise any fools I told em to send fastest way possible. I got the new CV that very next day!!!! FEDEX is amazing,,is all I can say!! I installed the new CV and had to light it 3 times before PILOT would stay lit,,finally get it lit and raise water temp and big burner came on , waited 3 mins and then adjusted the heat to HOT. As I was re-installing the covers and all,,,the frigging main burner went out!! IThis SAME thing happened several times as main burner would not stay lit for more than 3 minutes!! So I call RHEEM again and she had me do some more tests on the TRD but that was OK! She checks with their tech dept and she says the thermocouple on main burner "may be" bad,,,,??? Remember this is the brand NEW CV they just sent me,, My thoughts now is maybe a blockage in the propane line to heater,,?? !! Maybe even the gas shut off valve,,,?? I checked the propane tank and it has 55% full,,,,WTF,,,?? The info tag on the water heater says it needs 11.2 to 12.6 on 14"WC ????
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Replies:
Posted By: JW in MO
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 8:57pm
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Is the air intake plugged in any way. My thoughts are either the holes on the side are plugged up or an over temp safety tripping but I would think an over temp would be manual reset. Been out of it too long I guess, we always set the regulators to 11" and no more, with the burner running. Did your son send you this too? ------------- Maximum use of available resources! |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 9:04pm
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All Right JW,,,that's enough,,,,
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Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 9:05pm
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the thermocouple has to stay HOT to keep the gas valve open for the flame. Normally the pilot light is plenty big enough to heat the thermocouple.. Make sure the thermo is IN THE PILOT FLAME or real real close.... If the pilot dont stay lit, 90% of the time it is the thermocouple. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 9:07pm
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pilot should light as you HOLD DOWN on the red button and keep the gas flow going... Takes a minute to heat up the thermo so it will HOLD THE VALVE OPEN to get the gas flow.. If the pilot lights, then goes out when you take your finger off the red button, then the thermo is not working right.
if the pilot dont light, your out of gas. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Michael V (NM)
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 9:32pm
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JW may have the answer,something like that happened to my water heater , i cleaned up that screen around the bottom(didn't look clogged, but I guess it was) and wa-la,, it started working again this is some kind new safety chit on this new-fangled crap...
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Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 1:19am
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Yea, that screen is made to not let gas through it... unreal. Gotta have the screans absolute clean for air to flow... Ever see the lint screen in a dryer so plugged up that it will pool water in a clean looking lint screen? about the same principle on the draft screen. It has to be absolute clean to let air through. Some of the high energy efficient appliances have an ignitor that glows to start the flame... and it has to have draft fan blowing or it won't light... if it is one of them, there again, gotta have everything clean, even that igniter since it acts as a sensor after the burner starts. ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 4:38am
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------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 5:18am
| Cleaned carbon buildup and changed more thermocouples than anything else over the years. |
Posted By: plummerscarin
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 6:04am
| Cleaned the igniter on shop boiler prior to heating season this year. Solved all my fail to ignite codes from last year. Didn't look dirty but it doesn't take much on these newer appliances to go in to fault lockout. Have seen many instances of lockout where a cat litter box or some cleaning supplies nearby triggered a fume sensor. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 6:59am
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ummmm... thinking outside the box..... any chance you got and installed a NATURAL GAS valve shipped to you and not a PROPANE one ??? I know they ain't the same inside even though they look the same outside... ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Dusty MI
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 7:28am
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Dumb question. Why do people call that appliance a "HOT WATER HEATER? Why do you heat hot water? It's only a Water Heater. ------------- 917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express" |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 8:44am
Yeah, JC,,that was step #3 ,,their service techs had me go thru a "procedure on what they call the TRD which monitors the amount of "air" available to the pilot and burner and I had to remove the burner assy and there is a tiny glass filled chingas with some black colored fluid and if the compartrment has the air intake blocked in the least amount,,,it will sshut off the gas flow,,,after all that work,,the TRD was OK,,,whew!! SO, now the techs are saying it is the thermocouple and I agree, so they are hot shotting me a new TC,,,I tell you,,trying to clean your ,,,ahem,,,,never mind,,,,
The new TC susspossed to be here tamarrow,,,,wish me luck,,,, |
JC-WI wrote:Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 8:46am
Dusty,,,you MY KIND of Guy,,,,,!!!!
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Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 8:50am
Hey Jay,,,I don;t think so,, as the issue started wwith the original gas control valve so issue has been there and I agree with ole Steve and their techs in the TC,,cause it just makes sense when you throw out all the "possibles" only'ist thing left IS the TC,,,,?
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Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 9:00am
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I am real impressed at the engineuity of the water heaters of today,,,,,The combustion chamber is "sealed with a thick rubber gasket on the burner assy and a glass window for viewing the pilot/burner assy. I was concerned that since the burner operation is dependent so much on a specifific amt of combustion air,,,and the heater sits right on concrete pad,,that it might not be able to get enough air and Rheem techs told me it is better if it sets right on concrete as I questioned of I should raise the heater to allow fo more air and they said,,,"NO",,,,I always used to be "concerned" when trying to light pilots on them old timer heaters as most times the flame on burner seemed to want to come out and b
 urn you,,,, |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 9:04am
| None of my water heaters have sat on Concrete since the 1990s, Old one back then died had small feet but rusted terribly sitting close to floor. Plumber friend showed to use short lengths of PVC Pipe, 2.5" Dia is what have been using, to raise water heater up off the floor as little as 2" for allowance to clean under makes a world of difference even just to service. |
Posted By: Michael V (NM)
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 10:34am
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tiny glass filled chingas,,, LMAO,,I haven't heard of "chingas" in like forever,,, I think that has to be a NM thing!!
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Posted By: Ray54
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 11:59am
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Twice since 79 I have had the copper tubing between tank and regulator start shedding little bits of copper and plugging the regulator. Give the regulator a tap and things worked for some time. Keeps getting more often you that you needed to lit the pilots until I replaced the pig tail. I know being frugal it is hard think a copper tube that looks good could cause so much trouble, but twice it has. So if all else fails give the regulator a gentil wake and see if it works for a day or 2. My son bought a new water heater and had it warranted because it would not stay lit. Only when the second one gave a problem did I remember the pig tail failure 20 years before. But his problems went away with the replacement of the copper tubing. He had a heck of time getting a propane company to sell him the tube, as they want to get payed for a service call as it could leak and blow up. Two that where more handy than the company the generally has the best gas price refused. So I called and promised I had screwed a gas line together before and they sold us the tube.
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Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 12:12pm
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yeesh I'm geetin old HOW can a gas water heater place get the home owner to do 'service let alone send parts like the BURNER and have him install !!!! Up here you have to have a TSSA number just to BUT parts from a supllier ! ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 4:35pm
| Joe....hangs you a black trash bag outside in the sun, when you need a shower, poke a hole in it! |
Posted By: Lars(wi)
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 5:00pm
I could be mistaken, but was this the flexible copper tubing? If I recall, some jurisdictions have building codes against flexible copper tubing for gas usage. ------------- I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science. |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 7:10pm
| Ours requires Flexible Stainless or Hard Steel piping to either a Steel Flex or a Solid Coupler Union and Pipe. |
Posted By: Dusty MI
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 7:27pm
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Galvanized steel pipe coupled to copper pipe will cause the copper pipe to corrode and flake and leak and/or plug the orifice, when used with Natural Gas. ------------- 917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express" |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 10:37pm
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I installed flex copper 5/8 tube from the propane tank, 50 ft into the house and split to the water heater, stove and furnace.......... that was 1980.. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 11:29pm
YEAH ,,,Michael,,,I threw that one in there without a thought and yes ir prolly IS a New Mexico thing,,,,
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Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 11:32pm
Shameless,,,,WHAT A GREAT IDEA,,,,!!! UMMmm,,,,UMMmmmmm,,,Shameless,,,You reckon I might oughta put some water in the bag,,,"First",,,,?
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Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 11:43pm
My place has 1/2" Steel pipe from main tank to house and to that wall oven, free standing stove and this water heater. The shut off valve is a 1/2" 3000# 1/4 turn valve that is VERY, VERY hard to turn. Since I am waiting on the new TC, I have decided to replace this valve that most likely give me or my sons FITS some day,,,!! Hope that TC gets here SOON,,,Im tired of heating water in microwave just to wash my face,,,,!
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Posted By: Pat the Plumber CIL
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2023 at 7:39am
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Get rid of that Rheem and get a Bradford White water heater. Believe your screen in the bottom of the heater combustion chamber is not letting air flow like it should. A long skinny bottle brush and a skinny hose on a shop vac should be able to clean it up .Most water heaters only have a screen area of 4x10 for air to flow through. Bradford White uses the entire bottom of the combustion chamber as a screen. Screen is slanted fins at a 45 degree angle. In theory heavier combustible air will travel under and cleaner lighter air will flow into combustion chamber. If screens slow air down sensors will shut unit down. Also the gas valves on front of unit do fail. Can be a pain to figure out what's wrong. When I first started plumbing 35 years ago we only replaced water heaters when they burst or started leaking. Today 1/2 of the units I replace because I can't keep them running due to safety controls. But hey , when is the last time you heard of someone burning their house down from bringing gasoline in the house to wash parts. ------------- You only need to know 3 things to be a plumber;Crap rolls down hill,Hot is on the left and Don't bite your fingernails 1964 D-17 SIV 3 Pt.WF,1964 D-15 Ser II 3pt.WF ,1960 D-17 SI NF,1956 WD 45 WF. |
Posted By: Ray54
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2023 at 11:32am
| Well I cannot say for sure what the flex line between tank and regulator is made of but it is copper color. They have been made with gas in mind as the collars are left hand threads as a true gas line would be. The second one for sure came from propane company, the first one I just don't remember. |