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The One-Ninety at Nebraska Testing |
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21866 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 11 Dec 2022 at 8:06am |
I enjoy looking back and reading Nebraska Testing info when I am bored, or looking for particular specifications. Because I know a little bit about A-C tractors, the test information sometimes turns up interesting things. The mighty One-Ninety was first shown to the world of agriculture in July or August of 1964. The oldest advertising literature I have is dated August. The One-Ninety was the replacement (of sorts) for the D-19, with all new radical styling and a brand new engine line, called the 2000 series, built in the Harvey, Illinois engine facility. The 2000 series engine was quite modern and wasn't lacking at all in features when compared to the competition. The diesel engine serial number was 2D-1042. Interestingly, the chassis serial number was 190-1041-D !!! People sometimes ask why diesel power overtook gasoline power in farming. This tractor clearly shows why: diesel power at the PTO was 77.20 while burning 5.4 GPH fuel. The new gasoline engine produced 75.37 HP and burned 6.94 GPH !!! A gallon and a half difference in fuel economy per hour was looking like a big deal to me and that was at 100% load. Lighter loads I'm sure the diesel looked even better. The gas chassis s/n was 190-6955 and its engine was 2G-3003. The diesel model was tested in April of 1965 and the gasser not until November of the same year. The test results also show that the original transmissions were 1-2...3-5...4-6...7-8... in their speed/range selections. That later got changed after s/n 9001 when the drivelines were improved because of the XT's greater torque/HP.
Edited by DrAllis - 11 Dec 2022 at 11:12am |
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captaindana ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Fort Plain, NY Points: 2559 |
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Very interesting! And never boring! Our 185’s pulling the dual NH 258 rakes I don’t believe they burn a gallon and a half per hour in 6th gear 1500 ish rpm’s with a great comfortable ride. And they’re 50 years old!
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Blue Skies and Tail Winds
Dana |
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jvin248 ![]() Silver Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 Jan 2022 Location: Detroit Points: 449 |
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When diesel was less expensive than gasoline back in those days the cost gap widened significantly more! I expect modern diesel guys are upside down in that equation these days even without including the DEF requirements. Apparently US crude oil makes for cleaner fuels while more of the diesel crude is imported from naturally occurring 'dirtier' global sources -- and hence the fragility of commodity pricing impacting diesel these days. Our farm was exclusively gasoline equipment from the first tractors brought to the farm in the 1930s on up to the newest addition in the late 1960s. We had a gasoline tank with a service station pump on it (probably installed in the 1940s from what I remember of the pump styling). My father was always more comfortable working on the gasoline engines so that was another big part of the reason. There is probably a maintenance and repair balance that could be figured out -- like the big semi truck haulers primarily use diesel for their half to full million mile runs. Although I have currently or have taken gasoline engines regularly above a quarter million miles (rust usually kills them). And then there are the propane tractors I see at auctions. And the E85 sources that have a lower cost per gallon but you need to burn a lot more gallons to go the same distance. And wood for the old steam engine tractors, lol. Fuel is a pretty complex gamble for a farmer. .
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Charlie175 ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Shenandoah, VA Points: 6369 |
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How did that rating compare to the D19 Turbo Diesel?
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Charlie
'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21866 |
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D-19 turbo-diesel didn't fair very well against the non-turbo One-Ninety. D-19 T.D. had 66.92 PTO HP and used 5.2 GPH. The One-Ninety had 77.20 HP and only used 5.4 GPH. Ten more HP and only another quart of fuel per hour !!
Edited by DrAllis - 11 Dec 2022 at 11:11am |
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Gatz in NE ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Lincoln, NE Points: 1053 |
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https://www.dieselworldmag.com/diesel-tractors/the-first-turbo-tractor-allis-chalmers-d-19/
Seems to be a typo towards the end of article….should be GPH, not GPA
Nebraska Test #811
Edited by Gatz in NE - 11 Dec 2022 at 11:25am |
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AC720Man ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 Oct 2016 Location: Shenandoah, Va Points: 5227 |
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I also enjoy reading the tractor data on the models we have on our farm. I mentioned in my post of wanting to add the second set of remotes on my 160 was so I could use our Enrossi 4 basket Tedder . One set is needed for the folding and unfolding of the wings and the other is needed for tilt fore and aft. I mentioned fuel efficiency as a reason for using the 160 instead of the bigger horsepower tractors. Although our 6060 and my XT are efficient, the 160 is far more efficient. I know the Nebraska data is based on working load, Tedding certainly doesn’t put that much load on a engine so its fuel efficiency would actually improve on each tractor. Each engine still needs to run at pto speed. But for comparison, let’s look at the results based on Nebraska testing and $5.25/ gal fuel cost. The 160 uses 2.7 GPH or $14.18/hr. The 6060 uses 4 GPH or $21/hr. The XT uses 5.7 GPH or $29.93/hr. Let’s say it takes me 3 hours to TED including travel time. That’s $42.54 for the 160, $63 for the 6060, and $89.79 for the XT. For me that’s a big savings in a year of hay production especially when comparing it to my mighty XT. If you throw in the fun factor of running a XT then this all goes out the window lol.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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DougG ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Location: Mo Points: 8345 |
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The fun factor and 301 diesel in any AC tractor is so cool ; thats the perfect AC engine ; they will take a ton of abuse and yet hang in there
Edited by DougG - 11 Dec 2022 at 11:59am |
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soggybottomboy ![]() Silver Level Access ![]() Joined: 20 Feb 2018 Location: Iowa Points: 218 |
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I was the youngest of 4 brothers. The one who is next in line is almost 8 years older than me. When he went into the service at 18, I was expected to fill in with that workload. I was 12 years old. Dad had a D19 which was our big tractor. I stayed home from school a lot to help. My oldest brother bought a One Ninety, I think it was about 1966. That thing was a cadillac compared to the D19. The operator sat up high on a platform. All the controls were on a console. It had a big fuel tank, 48 verses 23 gallons on the D19. When you met the neighbors driving another color tractor on the road, you could look them right in the eye instead of looking up at them. It is just to bad the 190 tractors had so many driveline problems. They just couldn't hold the power of that 301.
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Gary Burnett ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Virginia Points: 3083 |
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The thing about the Nebraska Tests that makes them a little suspect as far as I'm concerned is the companies were able to supply directly the tractor to be tested so things could be done that wouldn't be reflected in an off the assembly line tractor.Better to have gotten tractors to test off a dealers lot.
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bigal121892 ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 05 Jan 2010 Location: Nebraska Points: 812 |
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All of the published specs are checked by the lab before testing, if a spec is found to be out of tolerance, the manufacturer is given the opportunity to correct the problem, or the test vehicle is rejected.
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darrel in ND ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Hebron, ND Points: 8716 |
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My "unofficial" fuel consumption experience is kind of like this. A lot of times when baling hay, we'd head to the field with the V rake behind my one ninety gas, and the baler behind the XT diesel. At the end of the field, the gas usually consumed about twice as much gas as the XT did diesel. Big difference though; the gas pulling the rake didn't hardly know it had anything behind it, and the XT was getting a pretty good workout.
Darrel |
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21866 |
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I think the Nebraska Test people were pretty good about making sure no one had an ace up their sleeve. I have seen pictures of the WD tractor that was tested and they took the engine apart after the testing was done to verify cubic inches, carb sizes, etc...looking for anything that didn't meet the specs that was printed in the companies service manual. As far as the driveline holding up, I don't remember ever working on an old original One-Ninety driveline. It was the genius in very late 1964 who decided the diesel engine needed a turbo-charger on it, is when the problems began. The One-Ninety was first and the XT came out later when the dealer organization complained 77 HP wasn't enough !! They needed a 95 HP unit. So, now there was the "XT". Whomever decided that was a good idea, without testing, cost AC millions of dollars in repairs and updates, while the market was being flooded with other 95 HP tractors that didn't have any serious problems. True, while the XT could out perform all the others in the field, it didn't out perform squat when it was in the shop for repairs.
Edited by DrAllis - 11 Dec 2022 at 3:29pm |
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Ky.Allis ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Location: Kentucky Points: 1030 |
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Why was the 200 never tested at Nebraska? Did they decide it was almost identical engine as the XT Ser. 3?
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21866 |
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I assume so. Same reason the series 4 D-17 wasn't tested either.
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Leon B MO ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Old Monroe, Mo Points: 2186 |
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AC720man, consider a Fasse valve on your 160. I have one the 8050 to get 3 remotes for the Kinze planter. It plugs into your single remotes to give you 2 double remotes with the flip of a switch. They are about $500 but easy to use. I added a 3rd remote to our other 8050 via, adding the valve, lines, linkage and breakaways and spent more than the cost of a Fasse valve.
Dr Allis, good read. I'll never forget the first time I saw the brand new 1972 190 XT diesel my Dad and Uncle bought. I was 6. It was the main tillage tractor for 800 acres for many years. Then it got 500 loader and put in front of the grinder/mixer. Lots of very tuff hours. We still have it and use it regularly. Leon B MO
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Uncle always said "Fill the back of the shovel and the front will take care of itself".
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AC720Man ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 Oct 2016 Location: Shenandoah, Va Points: 5227 |
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Leon I probably would have went that route after exhausting my efforts to stay factory. I was gonna give it a few more months, but luckily my brother came across a complete set in Alabama from a parts tractor. I’m in the process of cleaning the lines, and will begin the install this week. The parts are in really good condition. A great Christmas present to myself.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Ed (Ont) ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 Nov 2009 Location: New Lowell, Ont Points: 1488 |
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And the longevity of the diesel is also a factor especially when worked hard. Gas engines seem to last okay when not worked so hard but not so good in the real heavy duty applications.
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Ed (Ont) ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 Nov 2009 Location: New Lowell, Ont Points: 1488 |
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Ed (Ont) ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 Nov 2009 Location: New Lowell, Ont Points: 1488 |
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That is from an old farm magazine that we used to get up here in Canada called “Country Guide”. Date on the back of it is October 1964. 😀
I always loved the looks of those tractors. But the "D" series were very nice as well. Edited by Ed (Ont) - 11 Dec 2022 at 9:32pm |
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AC720Man ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 Oct 2016 Location: Shenandoah, Va Points: 5227 |
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I will always be partial to my XT, it was a horse in its day and it’s still my favorite. Just as the WD put AC on the map, I feel the XT did the same in its heyday. It’s fuel efficiency/power ratio amazes me every time I use it.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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SteveM C/IL ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8618 |
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Nice thing about the Fasse valve is it can be moved from tractor to tractor with ease. I can only drive one at a time so it would be a good fit here.
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AC7060IL ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 19 Aug 2012 Location: central IL Points: 3532 |
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DrAllis, always an interesting read - thanks for sharing. Yes, the increase in diesel hp versus fuel efficiencies per gasoline is quite impressive. It seems that the 190 & D19 have some parallels? Both models offered narrow front, wide front, hi-crop, & beachmaster versions. Both models offered newer straight-through rear axle designs to accommodate 34" or 38" tires.
Edited by AC7060IL - 12 Dec 2022 at 7:57pm |
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21866 |
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The D-19 always had a "Buda" inspired engine. The first 50 or so One-Eighty gassers tried to use the G-226 compression code "V" and failed for engine vibration problems at 2,200 top RPM's.
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CAL(KS) ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 18 Sep 2009 Location: Chapman, KS Points: 3804 |
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Ive stated this before, but in the AC crawler and tractor data book, Nebraska also tested the unstyled wc pulling more weight than a UC. never could figure that out.
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
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injpumpEd ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Walnut IL Points: 5096 |
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A 190 Gas never had the G2800, that would make it a 190XT Gas. D19D was always turbo'd, 190D never was. D19 gas always had the G262 6 cylinder. The 190 Gas was dropped eventually and just the 190XT Gas was offered. Guessing the 180 Gas with the G2500 filled that niche.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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AC7060IL ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 19 Aug 2012 Location: central IL Points: 3532 |
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AC7060IL ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 19 Aug 2012 Location: central IL Points: 3532 |
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AC720Man ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 Oct 2016 Location: Shenandoah, Va Points: 5227 |
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I went on the Nebraska website to see how they test and found very little info. I’ve seen video on how AC tested their tractors but I’m curious about the official Nebraska testing.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21866 |
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Exactly how each tractor was tested depends if it was in the 1930's or what decade since. I could find out, but they used to do their drawbar tests on DIRT, because of steel wheels. At some point in time, they went to a total concrete circular track, so the results were more consistent. That's why you see so many pictures of rear wheel weights stacked so wide, is because they were pulling on concrete AND the drawbar pull was in a straight line, not a downward pull on the drawbar. They changed many things about the testing over the years. Every tractor I look at there are three full sheets of information as to what each test consisted of. Actual belt or PTO numbers were done inside a building (I think) to keep air temps in the 75 degree F temp range. The outdoor testing wouldn't have been that way.
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