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Rain GaugeDelema |
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FREEDGUY
Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5391 |
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Posted: 29 May 2020 at 4:52pm |
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With all of the talk of recent rains, a close friend of mine has always used a tapered/funnel shaped gauge that will hold roughly 4"s of rain for at least 15 years with no thoughts on accuracy/inaccuracy until his wife brought home a new gauge from the local flower/garden center and set it 3 feet away from the "original". The new one is a 2 1/2" straight cylinder that reads consistently 1/2" more than the original . I would like to know if/what is a test to verify which unit is correct . My first thought was to put 1"(measured with a tape measure) in soup can and dump that amount into each gauge in question, but am pretty sure that experiment would be skewed ?? Thanks
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 81041 |
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The rain is 1 inch depth PER SQUARE INCH of surface area... If the opening is 1 x 1 inch, then the rain in the tube ( assuming 1 x 1 square) would be 1 inch tall......... If the opening is 2 x 2 that is 4 square inches, so if it tapers down to the same 1 x 1 square tube, the height would be 4 inches... BUT, the marking on the tube would be 1 inch every 4 inches of height...
You have to know the SURFACE AREA of the opening and the DIAMETER of the tube it runs into and how far apart the inch markings are on the tube..... you can not fill it from a cup of known volume, as it depends on the OPEN SURFACE AREA of the instrument.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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FREEDGUY
Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5391 |
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Thanks, I had a felling it wasn't going to be a "simple" experiment LOL!! I think I will suggest to him to get a third gauge and average them out .
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john(MI)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: SE MI Points: 9262 |
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They can become a National Weather Service(NWS) COOP site and get a real and very accurate rain gauge! Just contact the NWS office for your area and tell them you want to be a site. There are a few inconveniences, but you'll just have to decide if you want to deal with them or not. It looks like your NWS office would be GRR, Grand Rapids. Here's a link: https://www.weather.gov/coop/
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D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446
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GARY(OH/IN)
Orange Level Joined: 19 May 2010 Location: Findlay,Ohio Points: 917 |
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I'd like to have two things at the farm house. A thermometer and a rain gauge, both in orange. Repop would be fine with me.
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nella(Pa)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Allentown, Pa. Points: 3102 |
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Check the straight side tube rain gauge to see if it is calibrated correctly. If the one inch, two inch, etc. mark is exactly from the bottom it got to be correct.
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Tracy Martin TN
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gallatin,TN Points: 10624 |
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If you use the same amount of volume, in each rain gauge should read the same. Put a 4 or so ozs. in each and check it.
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No greater gift than healthy grandkids!
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11600 |
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Not if the gauges are a different shape, as stated in the OP. |
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Tracy Martin TN
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gallatin,TN Points: 10624 |
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It doesn't matter the shape or size. Volume is volume. The calibration on the gauge is what changes. The scale in which it reads. Tracy
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No greater gift than healthy grandkids!
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11600 |
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But, with the shape of the mouth open catching rain, it might take 4 oz's to fill one and 4 ounces overflows another, so pouring in a fixed volume is irrelevant. If I have a saucepan, and pour 4 ounces in, it will barely cover the bottom, if I put 4 ounces in a drinking straw, I'll need more than one to hold it, regardless of what calibrations are on the side of it ahead of time.
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Tracy Martin TN
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gallatin,TN Points: 10624 |
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Volume is volume. The shape and size determines the level at which they fill. It is the calibration on the rain gauge itself, that changes to read the given amount in each of the said rain gauges. Tracy
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No greater gift than healthy grandkids!
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Ray54
Orange Level Access Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Paso Robles, Ca Points: 4505 |
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No way for a exact measure. The best you can do is a gauge like the weather service uses. And it's probably expensive.
But for a cheap test use soup cans or what ever you can find that are the same exact containers. Spread them around your yard then measure away. If you put out 4 or 6 I beat you get different readings in most of them. The more gusty the wind the more differences you will see. The more you are out away from trees,buildings, or even a fence posts the more even they will be. The best way to have more than the neighbor is get him to tell first. Then stretch the truth as far as you dare. But for knowing how much rain you got I don't really want to wade out in the mud and poring rain to check my gauge way out away from my house. So you find a handy place and leave it in the same spot for years and you average out for storms coming with wind from different directions.
Edited by Ray54 - 01 Jun 2020 at 11:25am |
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11600 |
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I get that! Umm......you have a good one sir.
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 81041 |
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Tbone is right on the gauge.. Its an old Engineering problem... Lets say one gauge is 2 x 2 inches... it collects 4 SQUARE INCHES OF RAIN... If it rains 1 inch, then i have 4 CUBIC INCES of rain in the gauge... If the bottom of the gauge is 1 x 1 inch square, then i have a 4 inch column of water... If the bottom is 1 x 2 then i have a 2 inch column of water... if the bottom is 2 x 2 then i have 1 inch of water in the bottom..... so i cant transfer the KNOWN water volumn to another gauge as it might have a different TOP SQUARE inches or a DIFFERENT BOTTOM dimension....
Now you COULD measure the INLET SURFACE AREA of both gauges and then calculate from the the amount of water to put in each gauge.... If the SURFACE area is 4 times BIGGER, then you need 4 times LESS water for the column test.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 81041 |
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Take a soup can and fill it with water... Call that 4 inches of rain.............. Now pour that full can into a 5 gallon bucket and tell me how much " rain" you have.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11600 |
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Yes, and the calibrations show that. And you can't use a fixed volume to validate 2 different calibrations, as Steve is saying, because the inlet would collect it differently. But, I'd given up.
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Tracy Martin TN
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gallatin,TN Points: 10624 |
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You guys are missing the point. Volume is volume. It is the scale on the gauge that has to compensate for the different sizes of rain gauges. If both gauges will hold at least the volume you want to check, it doesn't matter the shape or size. It is a scale that reads the amount of volume. Each scale will be different spacing, but the volume should read the same. HTH, Tracy
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No greater gift than healthy grandkids!
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tadams(OH)
Orange Level Access Joined: 17 Sep 2009 Location: Jeromesville, O Points: 10119 |
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1" of rain is 1" if its 5 gallon bucket or a wash tub
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Red Bank
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Apr 2018 Location: Germanton NC Points: 1051 |
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After the second wettest May in record does anyone know where I can get a 10” rain gauge? Getting tired of pouring it out while it’s raining to keep up an accurate reading lol
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 81041 |
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the problem is the gauges dont have the same cone shape at the top so the DONT have the same VOLUME.. If one is 1 x 1 inch and one is 2 x 2 inches, the 2 x 2 collects 4 TIMES as much water.... The gauge is calibrated to the CONE, not fixed amount of water... The 1 x 1 gauge might collect 1 oz of water during a rain... The 2 x 2 will collect 4 oz of water... Yes, the gauge is calibrated DIFFERENT, but if your running a comparison, you need to pour four times as much water in the BIG gauge to get the same 1 inch reading on the scale as the little gauge.
Edited by steve(ill) - 01 Jun 2020 at 4:27pm |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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FREEDGUY
Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5391 |
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Sadly Tracy, that's the first test we did, a measured 1/4 cup of water into each "victim", 3" of variance
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11600 |
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Hahahaha!!!!!
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11600 |
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Tracy, think about this:
Let's assume 1 inch of rain fell as an accepted fact. You have a 5 gallon bucket sitting there, put a mark on the bucket, and call it 1 inch. A bucket is slightly conical shaped, so with a tape measure, it won't read an inch, that's where calibration comes in. Each time from here forth, whenever that bucket collects water to that mark during a rain, an inch of rain fell. Next, you want to make another gauge. This time you make it out of something totally different, like a soup can. You can't take the rain from the bucket and pour it in the soup can and make your mark, because the mouth of the bucket would have collected way more rain during the rainfall. You'd have to have them both out in the rain, and when the bucket gets to it's mark, go mark the soup can. A fixed volume cannot be used to compare the two scales. My last thought experiment for you. After this, I give, I really meant it this time |
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allisrutledge
Orange Level Joined: 30 Mar 2010 Location: SurgoinsvilleTN Points: 1355 |
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How the scale is marked on the gage is the difference. If you do not have a scale on the cone one that is calculated for the shape throw it away. I got both and they read the same on the scale.
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Allis Chalmers still exist in my mind and barns
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Tracy Martin TN
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gallatin,TN Points: 10624 |
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No greater gift than healthy grandkids!
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11600 |
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Agree on this! The OP says he has 2 rain gauges, one reads consistently 1/2" more rain than the other. So apparently, if it doesn't rain, one gauge shows 1/2 inch! I "THOUGHT" you were suggesting a fixed volume of water could verify the scales between 2 different shaped gauges, which would not work. I knew all along there was either a misunderstanding, or somebody was missing something simple. Beers on me. |
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Dakota Dave
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: ND Points: 3938 |
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Just get an electronic one make sure it's level where you have it and it'll continuously empty it's self. Don't even have to got out and check it. Can also get wind speed and direction temp and humidity without even looking outside. You can have three identical rain gauges set in three differant places in the yard and you'll get three differant readings. I had two of the funnel top gauges set 150' apart. One in he garden one outside my living room. Both in open areas they were always 1/2" apart. Since they were the exact same guage I swapped them they were still 1/2" apart. The living room one always was more than the garden. Unless I had been watering that day then the garden was of course more since it also captured the sprinkler.
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FREEDGUY
Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5391 |
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Not bashing your "electronic" gauge, but how do you know IT'S accurate ?? I've had one 8 years ago but couldn't keep up with the battery changes .
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Dakota Dave
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: ND Points: 3938 |
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It's just as accurate as anything else. Take several straight sided 5 gallon buckets set them around your yard in various places. After a good rain fall measure each one with a tape measure. There not going to be the same so which one is accurate. They all are except the one you placed close enough to the barn so it gets roof runoff. I replace the batteries in each of my electronic gauges every two years. They don't change measure amounts until after the remote battery low indicator comes on For a couple weeks then they stop working. The most accurate is the straight sided 5 gal bucket. It captures the largest sample.
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FREEDGUY
Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5391 |
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Thanks Dave , keeping things "simple" is usually the best/least $$ !!
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