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Questions about a 200 |
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Wilford1999
Bronze Level Joined: 15 Jun 2018 Location: Vinton, Iowa Points: 8 |
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Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 9:58am |
I am looking at a 200 that is a little rough. The guys says it starts right up and the engine is strong. Has brand new front tires and backs are 60 to 70 percent. Has a cab on it, but all the glass is gone except for the doors. Says he has straps on the high low to keep them engaged. Also said it has had a new radiator 5 years ago and Injector pump was rebuilt a couple years ago. He didn't explain it well but said it has a hydraulic leak in the middle of the tractor. What do you guys think, says 4000 is he bottom dollar
Edited by Wilford1999 - 21 Jun 2018 at 9:59am |
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20496 |
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A " hydraulic leak in the middle of the tractor" means just that........it is leaking internally in the middle of the tractor and has to be split in two pieces to repair.
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Red Bank
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Apr 2018 Location: Germanton NC Points: 1051 |
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I bought two 200s this year actually in one week, I have open tractors- no cabs- but with the way you describe yours it seems high to me but a lot of times prices are adjusted geographically so in Iowa that may be a good price but in North Carolina it's high for what you are buying. I am worried about the high/low being strapped down also the hydraulic leak- is it internal leaking out or external leak. Like Dr Allis says if it's internal the tractor has to be split. One of mine had a leak near the bellhousing but turned out side cover bolt was too long and had rubbed a hole in the pump supply tube. We cut it and put a rubber hose over it with clamps. Based on if it needs to be split I would be around $2500.
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calico190xt68
Orange Level Joined: 12 Jan 2017 Location: Frankton, IN Points: 803 |
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I bought this 190xt which (is very similar to a 200) about 2 years ago with brand new tires all the way around, has a power director that doesn't need to be strapped, it has a cab with all good glass, everything works, no shift issues, not bad looking sheet metal, but it did have a fuel injection pump that needed rebuilt when I bought it. I paid $3,500.00. I argued to myself that the tires were worth half of what I paid for it. I added the winch and lights later. It does have an EXTERNAL hydraulic leak in the middle of the tractor due to a coupling line issue, so pinpointing whether it is external or internal is a big deal. The steering wheel runs off of hydraulic lines in the middle of the tractor also, so if they were leaking that wouldn't be a huge problem. I agree that $2,500.00 is probably a better price since it has issues. A lot of sellers don't want to face the fact that these tractors just don't have many buyers lined up any longer. If the tractor has to be split and you don't do it, you will never get your money back. If I ever split my tractor, I will also replace things that aren't broke because they are probably worn and ready to break. That will get even more expensive. I love my 190xt so that 200 is a good tractor, if it all works. |
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80 7010, 80 7020. 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC
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Red Bank
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Apr 2018 Location: Germanton NC Points: 1051 |
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That's a beautiful 190 Calico
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Wilford1999
Bronze Level Joined: 15 Jun 2018 Location: Vinton, Iowa Points: 8 |
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The guys acted as if it was a cover and was external plate leak that just needed a new gasket. I don't know 200s well, is there a external plate somewhere. I would split the tractor myself and fix the hi low eventually but that might be a year or 2. I don't need it, just thought it would be another nice tractor to have around, and I'll probably sit this one
out. |
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Red Bank
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Apr 2018 Location: Germanton NC Points: 1051 |
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Make an offer tell the guy to call you when he decides to sell it. I have been looking at a 175 that a widow owns I won't make an offer yet because I don't want to appear to be a vulture but someone in the family gave her a price that's not reasonable and I have been waiting for what I feel is an appropriate time. The art of the deal is the seller wants all they can get and the buyer wants a deal. I just want what's fair. Anytime I price something I try to be fair and put myself in the buyers shoes. But a lot of times sellers don't realize it's 2018
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calico190xt68
Orange Level Joined: 12 Jan 2017 Location: Frankton, IN Points: 803 |
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Thanks red bank, but the late evening photo is hiding some cosmetic issues.
Wilford, if you do your own work then that would be a nice tractor to own. However, if you can't get to it for awhile maybe you could find a better starting point. I would low ball him and wait it out. He may have it a year from now. Only mechanics or salvage guys are probably going to buy it. |
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80 7010, 80 7020. 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC
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calico190xt68
Orange Level Joined: 12 Jan 2017 Location: Frankton, IN Points: 803 |
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By the way, I am unaware of a plate and gasket on 190xt. Others on here know far more about the hydraulics than I do. I wonder if the hydraulic leak is related to the power director not holding in gear?
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80 7010, 80 7020. 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC
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DSeries4
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Points: 7333 |
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$4000 for the 200 you described is too much. Sounds like a pretty rough tractor. I would don't even think I would go as high as 3000.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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allisbred
Orange Level Access Joined: 28 Mar 2015 Location: Hanover Pa Points: 1011 |
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The 200 is a nice tractor-- think about what the repair cost will be, add a few dollars, then think about what a new 110hp tractor will cost with maintance for a about 5 years. Just my justification😉
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Amos
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Ontario Points: 1316 |
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I bought a 200 years ago. They wanted $6800 for it. I test drove it, low power director slipped, high you could not engage slow it went in with a bang kind of all at once, tires not new but 50% injector lines all leaked at the pump, cab and all windows there but interior sound absorbing foam all torn up. I offered him $3200.
They finally called a week later and said they would take it , I got a corn head as well from them on the same delivery truck. Paid more extra for it. Well the power director needed both plates stationary and the moving ones, high and low warped beyond imagination pto clutch was right out of it as well two speed pto leaked like a sieve and I put a rear seal in the engine as well fixed the power director valve as it leaked internally when I got it back together...before I found out the pto clutch was smoked and of course the pto vale needed rebuilt as well as it leaked internally too. got it all back together and the spool on the back of the hydraulic pump, I think it is the proportioning valve??, well it stuck a few times. So the valve cover leaks after all this, I never had it off. I am peeved right off because the parts cost more than I paid for the tractor I did the work myself so I run it, let the valve cover leak, I know the engine will blow up I will fix it then. I build up another engine for it the next winter so I am ready when it does...so 17 years (4500 hours) later the wiring shorts out behind the dash and it catches fire I got it out and now I have to rewire it. Sold the engine a few years back to a fellow that needed a rebuilt one as it was just sitting in my shed ready to go. Great starting tractor and it has power to pull. You wont know til you get it home but that was my experience with my 200
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Charlie175
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Shenandoah, VA Points: 6358 |
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Does the 200 not have the depress notch on the hi/low lever like a 190? Can't figure why a strap would be required to hold it.
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Charlie
'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
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Amos
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Ontario Points: 1316 |
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It has a notched plate The plate wears and you replace it or build it up to get the lever to move far enough and to stay in place
Edited by Amos - 22 Jun 2018 at 7:02am |
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calico190xt68
Orange Level Joined: 12 Jan 2017 Location: Frankton, IN Points: 803 |
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Assuming that notch plate is somewhat easy to replace/fix, and the tractor had an external hydraulic leak, it might be worth reconsidering? Most guys get rid of the cabs anyway. If the sheet metal is really rough, then it still might not be a good idea. Amos, that story was enough to scare me away from purchasing old tractors. Yikes! I am starting to feel lucky on my purchase. It does sound like you got a lot of years out of it though.
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80 7010, 80 7020. 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC
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Red Bank
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Apr 2018 Location: Germanton NC Points: 1051 |
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Amos has a good point you don't know until you have it home. And Allisbred is right price a newer 110hp tractor. The first 200 I bought I took two friends with me, I knew they wouldn't buy it and I enjoyed the look on their faces when I told the guy I would take it. When we got it home I told them my reasoning behind buying it and we fixed most of the problems in a weeks time. The second one I bought at an auction mainly for parts but after getting it home it turned out to be better than the first one. Another week spent with it and we have most of the problems fixed or at least enough that I was able to bale hay with it this year.
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20496 |
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Sorry to disappoint, but a 200 is a 94 HP tractor.
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calico190xt68
Orange Level Joined: 12 Jan 2017 Location: Frankton, IN Points: 803 |
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I have noticed the inconsistency though. TractorData lists it as 104HP but then they cite the Nebraska Test as 93.64 HP for PTO and 79.12 HP for Drawbar. Where did they come up with the 104? They do the same thing on the JD 4020 listing where they list it at 101 but then say it is 91 PTO and 76 for drawbar. Nebraska used the same test results for 190xt and the 200 too, so they didn't retest the 200.
Maybe RedBank soups his up. :-) |
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80 7010, 80 7020. 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11604 |
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Tractor data first number is usually engine/flywheel. Then efficiency drops the horsepower available at the PTO, then drops even more to HP to the ground.
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11604 |
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Seems "the old days", you saw a tractor HP rating and it was PTO HP. You can't drive anything off the flywheel anyway, so made sense. Then some mfg's started the advertising game, competitive tractor but higher HP! Look into it, they're listing engine HP and the PTO HP would be similar. For a while, even into the 90's and 00's, you'd see different ratings among different mfg's. Then they'd throw kW in there for fun, even bigger number! Tractor data is nice, they do a pretty good job of ordering the numbers for comparison amongst models and brands. They may not be perfect, but they do a good job, and keep making edits where problems are detected. IMO.
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calico190xt68
Orange Level Joined: 12 Jan 2017 Location: Frankton, IN Points: 803 |
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I noticed when looking at TractorHouse that some sellers put Allis 190XT and 200s in the "above 100 HP" listings and others put them in the "below 100 HP" listing. Same is true for the JD 4020. So, I just look in both categories now. Thanks for explanation.
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80 7010, 80 7020. 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11604 |
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Yeah, tractorhouse can be a little sketchy. If you're looking for 4wd, or not, better look both places as well!
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Red Bank
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Apr 2018 Location: Germanton NC Points: 1051 |
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When I was looking at my 200 I had checked tractor house for specs. The horsepower figures they showed were from Nebraska test dated 1965 which were also the same test for a 190xt. I read elsewhere probably in this forum that they never tested the 200 so no one really knows. Do you follow the 190xt specs or the 7000 specs? I don't know, usually in my mind I consider it 100hp tractor. As far as hotrodding I do have a 200 that according to InjEd has a pump from a IH 407 dozer on it. Compared to the other 200 it feels stronger but when comparing 44 year old tractors there are too many variables. In the above post I was merely quoting a figure someone else had mentioned.
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allisbred
Orange Level Access Joined: 28 Mar 2015 Location: Hanover Pa Points: 1011 |
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Our 200 measures 116hp on the PT0, could say that the dyno is off, but same that measures 76hp on the 185 with a turned up pump. Not sure what a 200 left the dealer with, just know that it's strong. I've heard of several that were around 115hp in this area though. That's why I just considered them a 110hp tractor.
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calico190xt68
Orange Level Joined: 12 Jan 2017 Location: Frankton, IN Points: 803 |
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All this 200 talk makes me want to have one! I see it as an improved version of the 190xt Series III. My guess is that the HP had increased for the 200 in the 72-75 year span when compared to a 1965 test. According to Tractordata, they made twice as many 190xts as they did 200s so there would be fewer parts, I suppose.
I missed a chance at a nice 200 here in Indiana this past fall. It was on craiglist and appeared to be in original but well taken care of condition. I wonder if a forum member got it? |
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80 7010, 80 7020. 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC
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Red Bank
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Apr 2018 Location: Germanton NC Points: 1051 |
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How bad do you want one? I haven't really run into any issues in parts availability yet. I would like to find a cab for one and a canopy mount for the other one.
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Red Bank
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Apr 2018 Location: Germanton NC Points: 1051 |
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calico190xt68
Orange Level Joined: 12 Jan 2017 Location: Frankton, IN Points: 803 |
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Red bank, thanks for the pics. You are too far away for me to entertain a 200 purchase. [;)] I need to fix my 190 up first anyway.
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80 7010, 80 7020. 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC
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Red Bank
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Apr 2018 Location: Germanton NC Points: 1051 |
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Hey we deliver!!! I need to come to Indiana to drop off some cores anyway. No seriously I understand and to be honest for what I have in them I should keep both. And I think it would neat to have one with a cab and one with a canopy.
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injpumpEd
Orange Level Access Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Walnut IL Points: 4912 |
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I've covered this before, but here it is again. When the XT came out, it was tested at Neb. The inj pump was superseded several times and the early one was set to 63-65cc. That is where the 93.64hp rating came from in my opinion. Later ones went to 65-67, then the last ones with the advance pump 9GR were 70-72cc. The 200 is same setting as this. So in my simple mind, the 93.64 hp and 65cc pump spec would indicate the later was 10% higher fuel delivery, so the hp should be in the 103-105 area. The 7000 pump spec is 65-68cc and rated to 106 hp. 7010 & 8010 are 67-71cc, same 106hp, but the larger chassis could have required a touch more fuel. 7020 is 79-83cc, so 15% more fuel, but gets about 17% more power, which the innercooler helps support the added fuel. My experience has proven for every 1 percent of fuel increase, you get 1 to 1.5 pto hp, on turbo diesel farm tractors, to a point. Obviously you get in to pulling situations, it takes a bunch of supporting engine work to support the added fuel. Some of the ones I build are well over 400% on fuel delivery. Odd thing is the 7020 is 123 hp with turbo & innercooled 301, and the 210 is 122 hp, but with the 426 straight turbo engine fuel spec is only 71-75cc. So with all this info, I always consider a 200 to be just over 100 pto hp right out of the gate. I know many will say the dyno is off lol!
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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