This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity. | ||||||
The Forum | Parts and Services | Unofficial Allis Store | Tractor Shows | Serial Numbers | History |
WD45 Cam Degreeing |
Post Reply |
Author | |
MMWD45
Bronze Level Joined: 18 Oct 2016 Location: Barto PA Points: 8 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 3:29pm |
I am currently building a WD45 and had a cam ground by cam crafters and now its come to put the engine back together. I have built a few engines in my life and I am familiar with the concept but I am not confident in degreeing this cam in this engine. I have the cam with the bolt on style gear and not sure how to adjust cam timing other then jumping a whole tooth and I am sure that's going to be too much. I live in eastern PA near Reading or Allentown. Anybody know of any Allis Mechanics who could help out with this?
|
|
Sponsored Links | |
CAL(KS)
Orange Level Joined: 18 Sep 2009 Location: Chapman, KS Points: 3786 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I have yet to do one but I was going to have the holes in the cam gear machined to allow for adjustment and lock it there
|
|
Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
|
PaulB
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Rocky Ridge Md Points: 4753 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
The bolt on gear just needs the hole made into slots to get things were you want it. Then drill for a pin to keep it there. I'm in Maryland just below Gettysburg if you want to come here for help.
|
|
If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
|
dgerth
Bronze Level Joined: 27 Nov 2012 Location: NC Wash Points: 172 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Paul,
Would it be possible to mill down the crank gear to be able to rotate the gear the correct direction, with helical gears, not straight cut. dan
|
|
PaulB
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Rocky Ridge Md Points: 4753 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
That may possibly work, although I've made a jig to cut a new keyway in the gears. This works for all the BE, CE, 138, 149, 160 engines as the cam gear is the same for all. I have to assemble everything check what the degree is, calculate the change is needed, then skip a couple of teeth and cut the new keyway. You could also use an offset key like is available for racecars. I've found that generally about a half a tooth is needed.
|
|
If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
|
WF owner
Orange Level Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4669 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I saw a recent post about using an offset key instead of advancing a full tooth. Where would a person find an offset key?
|
|
mgburchard
Orange Level Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Tennessee Points: 1123 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
purchase a chevy cam dowel and set of degree bushings drill cam and gear while bolted together then remove gear slot holes in gear install dowel in cam drill gear to accept bushing and you can advance or retard up to 8 degrees , If you have any other questions facebook Andy Broome.
|
|
wi50
Orange Level Joined: 24 Sep 2010 Location: weegieland Points: 1010 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I've made offset keys, its not that hard. I bought a bag of keys from mcmaster carr, much thicker than the original, the correct diameter. I think a bag of 50 or 100 was only $7 or something. Now I can simply mill one side and the other side to get the desired offset and thickness to fit the original keyways. On larger keys of odd size, I'll make them from scratch from a peice of round stock and mill away half.
The other option is cutting a new keyway in the gear or camshaft. I made a little fixture to fit in the bore of the gear, it has a small degree wheel and a pointer, the fixture has a slot for a broach. Now I can simply cut a new keyway at the desired degree marking, but I cut them off by several teeth. But I engrave the gear as per the new timing marks and cross out the old ones to eliminate confusion. On the bolt on gears, I just take a stack of gears and put them on the turn table and slot the holes, then simply set it where I want and lock them down. You MUST take the shaft diameter into consideration when making the offset keys..... or using a bushing. Some people aren't bright enough to realize this and will try and argue that a chevy bushing is 2,4,6, or 8 degrees no matter where it is placed, with no reguard to distance from center. (we've covered this before) On a chevrolet camshaft, that bushing is .785" from center, (if memory serves me correct). You can't place it that close on the allis camshaft, as the hole in the center of the gear is to large, it must be placed out further, so it's advertised offset will be something else other than what it's advertised to be. For some examples, If a shaft is 1" in diameter, it has a circumfrence of 3.14", there is 360 degrees in 3.14" so .008722" is one degree. Or say a shaft has a 2" diameter it would take .01744" to make one degree of offset. If my memory serves me the allis cam nose is 1.625" on these engines. Meaning that .014" is one degree, (1.625" X 3.14 = 5.10" divided by 360 degrees in a circle = .014") so to move the camshaft 6 degrees I would make a key with a .085" offset. |
|
"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"
|
|
mgburchard
Orange Level Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Tennessee Points: 1123 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Andy Broome has one of the famous run straight up cams from bullet his cam installed that way was so retarded the header glows red at idle .with simple hand tools he was able to degree cam in on 105 using dowel and bushings
|
|
Post Reply | |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |