Whats wrong with buda 262 engines

I am not sure but I believe that a 262 in a d17 is not a BUDA engine but an Allis made engine?

I believe that ledge that holds the sleeve in place erodes away and the sleeve sinks into the block and that is why some of them have leaking head gaskets, remember these are 50 year old tractors that probably have not had the proper care that should have been given to them.

A lot of the issues with these engines had to do with improper warm-up and cool-down.  For many folks, this (WD-45, D-17) was the first diesel engine they had ever operated.  If it was put under load before getting to operating temp or shut down too quickly when finished working, it would lead to uneven head temperatures and head warping, which leads to other problems.  Allis and Buda had some learning to do, to as did all diesel engine makers which is why later engines are so much more reliable and forgiving.

The problems I experienced while working as a mechanic at a dealer were the sleeve standout, the head and the head gasket. As discussed, the ledge in the block where the sleeves were supported, would erode and the sleeves would sink. When this happened, the head gasket would leak and if that continued, the engine would consume coolant, overheat easily and sometimes crack from this. It was common to remove a head and see a dozen or more cracks in the head. Some were not leakers and some may have been a result of improper warm up and cool down as discussed on an earlier post. But the killer in this engine was the block sleeve ledge erosion. The ledge in these engines was very narrow. The block would erode changing the flat ledge to a tapered sloping shape. There were no shims available and I doubt that would have been an option with the condition of the damaged block. To fix this problem, Allis Chalmers produced a replacement sleeve that was .020" oversize, with a thicker, taller flange. The counterbores (ledges) in the block had to be recut with a counterbore tool or a boring bar. Another repair that I have done very successfully is to deck the block, recut the counterbores to the proper depth and remove the same amount of material (removed from the deck) from top of the pistons. Once the sleeves are sitting on a good foundation, the head gasket takes care of its self. We did replace a number of blocks back then as requested by the customer. We repaired more in the later years (and I am still doing it). One other problem I used to see was the threads in the block for the headbolts would strip. I don't know if that was from having the head off multiple times, trying to make it seal, or if the leaking gaskets would erode the block threads. I remember retorqing more than one of these heads and having the last bolt strip the threads.

The really sad thing about the 262 story is that when A-C bought the Buda company, that engine didn't have sleeves !!  it was a bored block and had no sleeve protrusion issues. It was re-designed by A-C engineers so they could still claim to have "wet" sleeves like all the gasoline engines. As a gasoline version, the inadequate sleeve lip caused no problems. It was when it was dieseled ( and later turbocharged..boy that was dumb) that the problems surfaced. Worn out head bolt holes could be attributed to too many disassemblies to fix a blown head gasket and too high of head bolt torque trying to keep another gasket failure from occuring.

I know a fella said he spent 7k to get everything fixed on one of those including injection pump rebuild.

I have a good running diesel in my D17; altho it swallowed a valve seat last spring and wrecked the #4 piston. A new sleeve/piston (just 1), gasket set and head rebuild was nearly $1,000. It's back together now and runs like a kitten. Suspect that those that have problems were not used/maintained right. One that is in good condition is a sweet engine with lots of power and easy on fuel. That said, $3,000 to rebuild an engine (without touching the injectors or fuel pump) in a $2,500 (+/-) tractor would cause me to investigate other options.

Bruce Nelson wrote: The problems I experienced while working as a mechanic at a dealer were the sleeve standout, the head and the head gasket. As discussed, the ledge in the block where the sleeves were supported, would erode and the sleeves would sink. When this happened, the head gasket would leak and if that continued, the engine would consume coolant, overheat easily and sometimes crack from this. It was common to remove a head and see a dozen or more cracks in the head. Some were not leakers and some may have been a result of improper warm up and cool down as discussed on an earlier post. But the killer in this engine was the block sleeve ledge erosion. The ledge in these engines was very narrow. The block would erode changing the flat ledge to a tapered sloping shape. There were no shims available and I doubt that would have been an option with the condition of the damaged block. To fix this problem, Allis Chalmers produced a replacement sleeve that was .020" oversize, with a thicker, taller flange. The counterbores (ledges) in the block had to be recut with a counterbore tool or a boring bar. Another repair that I have done very successfully is to deck the block, recut the counterbores to the proper depth and remove the same amount of material (removed from the deck) from top of the pistons. Once the sleeves are sitting on a good foundation, the head gasket takes care of its self. We did replace a number of blocks back then as requested by the customer. We repaired more in the later years (and I am still doing it). One other problem I used to see was the threads in the block for the headbolts would strip. I don't know if that was from having the head off multiple times, trying to make it seal, or if the leaking gaskets would erode the block threads. I remember retorqing more than one of these heads and having the last bolt strip the threads.

  Once the sleeves are sitting on a good foundation, the head gasket takes care of its self.   Absolutely correct !!!

The old mechanics at Peterson Implement where I worked once (gone now) said they had a customer who bought 2 diesel 17s and had a lot of trouble and sunken sleeves. He traded them in and the next customer that bought them (I think he bought both too) had no trouble at all. He let them idle while he did the cattle chores every time before he shut them off. Ran them in cold MN winters too. Let them cool off for a long time and that will certainly help. I would recommend that even for much newer tractors too. Just better for them.

Fifteen years ago you couldn't hardly give away a buda diesel, now everyone wants a 45 or 17 diesel to play with and they wonder why they have so much trouble.  I pull a 45 diesel that has a 1966 262 turbo out of a CII, that has been turned up and so far I have had no trouble with it.  I also use it to farm with.  But, of course the best engine is the diesel 273 buda that was put in the 50 Cockshutts, which has no sleeves, so consequently a lot less worry of the sleeves dropping.  I just put a turbo back on my 50 diesel Cockshutt and am going to pull it some next year.  The only other non sleeve engine is the 182, that was never put in a tractor, just in industrial use 4 cylinder version. 

Four cylinder Cummins might be a better fit. Used to be common in bread trucks.

Gerald J.

I think a 200 ci 433 engine would be a better replacement for a D262 in a D17, but I am not sure how the length issue would work.  The 301 seems like a big engine for the D17.  If it's a series 4, shouldn't an adapter plate from a 180 or 185 bolt up to the rear of the 433.  Not sure what you'd do about the front plate.

Hurst

Would a 170/175's diesel fit?

BrianC wrote: Would a 170/175's diesel fit?

170 and 175s were Perkins diesels.  The steering shaft gets in the way of any other engine fitting into the chassis.  Like I said in another post - lots of surgery.

USE AND ABUSE,key words in the 45 diesel problems,crank up hook up and when you get to the end of the field shut it down,no never,heat it up and cool it down,properly.that was thinking from the gas powered days,wont work for a diesel.....

Denis in MI wrote: So if my engine needs major work on the block is their another allis engine that would bolt in, and give the same or maybe a little more power.  A couple of guys from the local tractor club were trying to convince me to swap in a 5.9 cummins and just leave off the turbo or turn the pump down but I fear that the drivetrain would self destruct since I want to use the tractor not just parade it around.    Thanks for all the info and oppinions so far, Denis

A 5.9 wouldn't hurt the drivetrain if you only pulled the normal D17 implements at normal speeds.