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Crimp or Solder ??? |
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BuckSkin
Silver Level Joined: 12 Sep 2019 Location: Poor Farm Points: 409 |
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Posted: 13 May 2024 at 11:48pm |
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Crimp vs Solder ?
I am a self-proclaimed expert when it comes to truck electrical and I have had my own way of doing things for years; probably wrong; but it's the way I do things. Anything bigger than 10-AWG, I CRIMP and I mean CRIMP; and, I slather and saturate the wires in Vaseline prior to crimping, especially anything that goes in one of those copper-lug hollow-tube-type terminals. I have one of those Forney crimpers where you hit it with a sledge-hammer; you can't get any more crimped than that. For smaller wires, I have an old Harbor Freight crimper that I wouldn't trade to that guy for two pair of his Snap-On ones; they are that good; if you have a good grip, and I do, you can liquify the copper with a set of those. Anything 12-AWG or less, I have always been adamant about soldering; however, every time I solder such a joint, I get this nagging feeling that I am doing more harm than good. I even solder any small crimped connections; I crimp and then I solder. It looks good and I believe a good coat of solder prevents anything getting into my connection. However, and this is where I am in 100% agreement with the guy on the video, and why I never solder anything bigger than 10-AWG, especially battery-cable size, no matter how expert one claims to be at soldering, there is no way to prevent the solder wicking way back in the wires, way past the connection, and making that wire on both sides stiff and brittle. My intentions are to change my life and quit soldering everywhere that I can; I know there are times and places where soldering is about the only choice. I intend to ask ol' Saintie Claws for some of those good two-stage crimpers and procure myself a huge assortment of the various necessary crimp terminals. I noticed that one set of crimpers ain't gonna cut it as they are pretty much specific to only three sizes of wire. As for the Vaseline, I have used and tried all the expensive purpose-made treatments out there and I will stick with the Vaseline as I know for fact that it is better than anything else on Copper wire. I have slathered and dipped in Vaseline old reddened green-corroded corrupted Copper cables that most would throw away --- poor people have to make do --- and then crimped the living daylights out of the connection and ten years later that old corrupted Copper wire will look better than new; shiny as a brand-new penny and flexible as a good welding cable. Yes, I have been a firm believer in soldering; but, in my mind, I have always known it was not the best choice. If one could somehow prevent that solder creeping way back past the joint, then I would be an adamant proclaimer for the superiority of soldering anything smaller than 10-AWG.
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WF owner
Orange Level Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4648 |
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I have started using these lever connectors for connections that I may have to take apart at some point. They are not for places where the weather or road conditions might affect them, but I really like them for other applications where they are protected.
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Dorix
Orange Level Access Joined: 21 Apr 2020 Location: fox valley Points: 966 |
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I use Wagos occasionaly as well, and for certain applications they work well.
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Walker
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: oh Points: 8396 |
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Oxidization will eventually form on things pressed together ( the thing that makes old radios sound scratchy when turning the knobs to adjust sound and tuning potentiometers ) and may give you a less than perfect joint in time whereas solder will seal everything inside away from oxidization and keeps independent wires/electronics from working loose from each other. I'm a solder man myself. Plus you get to play with fire,acid and lead all at the same time.
Edited by Walker - 15 May 2024 at 8:47pm |
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KJCHRIS
Orange Level Joined: 21 Dec 2015 Location: WC Iowa Points: 896 |
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I crimp almost all wiring terminals, some that can get tugged on when in use get crimped & soldered.
BuckSkin; I thought the Vaseline on wires was just something I learned from my grandad 50+ years ago. Only thing I do different is that on terminals going on batteries they get heat shrink (the good type with the jell stuff inside) or at least wrapped with electrical tape. That's what the Cat Dlr shop foreman taught us to do in the mid 70's. I've seen cables and the crimped/sealed portion of terminal still be good after 10-15 years on old neglected construction equip. Just clip off old terminal, strip back and install a new one. Anyone priced #1 ga or 2/0 batt cable lately? Crimp batt cable ends have jumped up also. |
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AC 200, CAH, AC185D bareback, AC 180D bareback, D17 III, WF. D17 Blackbar grill, NF. D15 SFW. Case 1175 CAH, Bobcat 543B,
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BuckSkin
Silver Level Joined: 12 Sep 2019 Location: Poor Farm Points: 409 |
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When I was a kid, "black tape" was a woven cloth affair impregnated with a roofing-tar-like substance that sealed everything away from the elements. If you got close to it, you would be washing it off your hands for weeks. Way every once in a while, I will run upon some on an old truck or tractor and it is still as gooey and sticky today as it was sixty years ago. Then they came out with the thin plastic stuff of the last fifty years and I don't know even if one could buy that good old stuff if they wanted to. I am sure it would be full of stuff that gives people in California cancer; but, it sure was good electrical tape. Am I the only one that remembers it ?
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WF owner
Orange Level Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4648 |
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I think you are talking about black friction tape. It's not cheap, but still available. |
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BuckSkin
Silver Level Joined: 12 Sep 2019 Location: Poor Farm Points: 409 |
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Thanks for finding that. When I read this review: TERRIBLE TERRIBLE TERRIBLE!!!! WORST PURCHASE ON AMAZON EVER I HAVE EVER MADE! The tar glue comes off on your hands and makes your hands sticky, dirty and stinky. Eventually all the tar like substance completely comes off the tape so that it has no tackiness or grip at all. It is hard to wash the tar like substance off your hands. What a mess and disappointing product. :I knew it was the right stuff.
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 22399 |
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Question: Why did God invent gasoline ? Answer: So you COULD get that sticky black goo OFF your hands !!!
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 30971 |
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Have used crimp connectors for over fifty years now. Work fine when as note keep Air and moisture away. Used seal tape for early years, moved to shrink tubing and latest is Liquid tape UNDER shrink tube. Still solder sensitive connections as ABS or Sensors of any type as crimps add resistance. Larger cables get crimped then solder flowed into the connection and shrink tube applied around that as on Battery Cable ends.
All will eventually fatigue or ozone fail but make the best possible to last longest connections. Plug in connectors get a grease like connector lube that helps reduce moisture damage and seals aome Air off them. |
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BuckSkin
Silver Level Joined: 12 Sep 2019 Location: Poor Farm Points: 409 |
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Are you meaning that stuff that has a brush on the can lid and is very similar to that stuff you dip plier handles in ? I like that stuff but never thought to use it under heat-shrink; I had a can about half empty, lid screwed on tight, and went to use it six months later and it had solidified. I am curious to try sixtyfiveFord's trick of storing such things with the can upside down. Lately, I have been trying a new trick. For years, I have adamantly applied three layers of heat shrink. Lately, instead, I have been tightly wrapping with black tape and then completely cover that with a layer of heat shrink. I believe you are on to something by coating with liquid tape and then heat shrink over it.
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Codger
Orange Level Joined: 23 Dec 2020 Location: Illinois Points: 2032 |
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Potting compounds, 3:1 adhesive lined shrink tube, and good quality crimp terminations utilizing the correct tools for those terminations are usually the best methods to low resistance durable terminations. The zinc chloride used in soldering past flux becomes minutely corrosive if not washed clear after soldering, but most easily removes with 91% isopropyl alcohol. I can't answer for suppliers as I don't shop from a price standpoint, but rather from what works and can be depended upon. I have literally hundreds of connections and terminations exposed to the elements for years with many being oceanside installations still performing and meeting design criteria. I use the same criteria in automotive type work. Typically I used/use Burndy, Thomas & Betts, and some Ideal. Not the most inexpensive by any means, but from the mentality it has to work.
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A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.
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JoeM(GA)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Cumming,GA Points: 4630 |
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LOL!, grew up on friction tape, that stiff was a true mess around an engine, but it worked! As for crimping, I too crimp all battery cables, I broke down a few years ago and bought a handheld hydraulic crimped, I love it as struggle with hand strength these days.
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Allis Express North Georgia
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