D-17 IV versus G-226 serial numbers

One thing was always different about a series 4 gas or LPG engine over the series 3 and older engines. The difference was the crankshaft journal harness on the surface. The journal surfaces were hardened by a process A-C called "Tufftriding".  Perkins engines called it "Nitriding" but it was the same process. I'd say 80% of every series 4 I got to overhaul for the very first time, I never had the crankshaft reground undersized. It hadn't worn if it had good regular maintenance. I always used -.001" on the mains and usually standard or -.001" on the rods, which A-C offered in those days. Anyway, the parts books or service manuals don't ever give a s/n break as to when the first G-226 engine got this better crankshaft. The parts system just subbed up the new better crank to replace any crank in any age engine because it fit. So, my goal here is to try and determine approximately when this happened. The first series 4 chassis was s/n 75001 in mid 1964. Who can provide me with the oldest series 4 chassis s/n and then give me the gas engine s/n ??  I have a good start with a very late 1965 s/n 80082 eng is 17-62194-M. The next one is a late summer/early fall 1966 s/n 84559 eng is 17-69525. So, you see building 4477 tractors they built 7331 gas engines that went into other applications. The last serial 4 chassis was 89213 according to Swinford's book. To give you an example of how things changed a lot, I had a mid-1963 D-17 S3 s/n 67425 and the engine was 17-42480-M.  So, from mid 63 to late 65 they built 12,657 D-17 gas/diesel chassis and 19,714 gas engines  !!! This could be interesting. Thanks to JoeO and Codger for their help on this. Anyone else who can help, please climb aboard !! Looking for the oldest S-4 gassers.

Edited by DrAllis - 22 Nov 2023 at 6:46pm

Gleaner E's number about 8,500 engines from late 1962 thru 1964 1/2 the way I count them. That time frame would be when the series 4 engine came out in Summer/Fall 1964. The engine in my antique D-17 puller has one of those cranks in it (stroked to 6.00") and I will get the eng s/n this weekend. As time went on in 65-66 looks like about 7500 more combines built. Serial numbers in 67-68 get a little skewed, as their beginning number looks chosen, not actual. But, I think 4,000 engines each full year would be close guess from late 1962 thru 1968 for 26,000 combine engines. Then, power units and everything else they got used for.  Numbers I've crunched using Swinfords book indicate D-17 tractors were 80% gasoline powered over the 9++ years of production. Again, during the series 3 days, there was a huge bunch of actual tractor serial numbers missing from 1962 to 1963. My semi-educated guess would be, when they made the change to the crankshaft....EVERY engine from then on got the better crank. They didn't have a "cheap" crank like some of the Harvey engines.

Edited by DrAllis - 22 Nov 2023 at 8:25pm

I have an older one;  1964/1965 ?

Those are interesting engine production numbers. Approximately how many engines, of all models, was the Harvey plant capable of making a year? Did they have separate lines for the gas and diesel or did they just produce one model of engine for awhile and then switch over to another model? I never got to tour the plant,but I bet it would have been interesting.

Were most all of the parts for the early engines produced in house? Pistons, rods,cams, crankshafts, valves, bearings and even gaskets? Obviously electrical components and carburetors were farmed out. How about water pumps and clutch assemblies?

First off, Happy Thanksgiving to everyone. Doc,your last post was basically at midnight. Don't you ever rest? Yes, the later engines had many different parts sources. Japan, France, and West Germany come to mind. I remember now that even the WD clutches were either Rockford or some other supplier. I still assume that the majority of the engine parts for the Milwaukee built engines were made in house. Considering the other products that Allis built in that time frame, those engine parts would have been small potatoes compared to the massive generators that they made.

I remember being at the West Allis plant in 75 or 76 and there were a plethora of G226 engine on racks on the west wall of the assembly plant about half way down. I was amazed there were still that many new engines. Knowing they were coming to an end I wonder if they batch built a bunch of engines and used them years later ? I ask wheree the engines were assembled and was told in the 'old line' that was now something else.

No engine could never have left the factory without a serial number, located behind the carburetor/air cleaner hose. No s/n means the block has been replaced with a new block out of the parts system. Sometime the block was frozen or gotten overheated/hot and cracked, who knows.

At that 5400 to 5800 hr mark, it probably needed to be reground -.010" on the mains. Maybe your dealership didn't have a local machine shop that could grind cranks or do a good job grinding cranks, so they just replaced with new. Not everyone of us had access to good "local" machine shops.

Should be an E-3 I think with Z code 8.0 to 1 compression +4 HP.

Les, my guess is that a .010" regrind would remove the treatment. Now, a freshly ground crank should be good for 4000 hours or more. Who is going to put enough hours on one to wear it out in this day and age?

Dr. Allis:  I was not aware that a non labeled engine serial number block was a replacement block.  I was thinking that there would be some lettering or labeling that would denote that the block was a replacement block.  I have seen Kohler engines with a stamped tag stating that the engine or block was a replacement block.  As always, I appreciate the  insights. 

D17 75670- 17-54044-M
D17 84970- 17-70165-M
D17 78207- 17-58309-M
D17 77091- 17-56654-V
D17 86353- 17-72366-M

The V engine serial number is an LPG. The rest are gas.

I'm Late posting but just got back to where I have my tractors.