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C-Reid-Mac 
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 Topic: First AC may be my last
Posted: 31 May 2019 at 1:44pm |
I know most of you are AC guys. I bought a beautifully refurbished D15 last November, used it maybe 2 hours before it sat in a barn all winter being started and run for 2 to 3 minutes several times a week until it ran out of gas. During that time I found out that the great AC "snap coupling" is an albatross. Beautiful tractor that doesn't have any equipment available.
I finally found a pull behind pasture mower and managed to get pasture mowed with AC having what seemed to be some fuel issues. Next time I went to mow -- wouldn't start -- electrical problems. Then I learned that for some reason AC thought it would be great to have a positive ground. Tractor Guy took tractor back and rewired including a new "hot wire" (that attached to negative terminal) that was bad. Tractor started and was mowing great for about 20-25 minutes when it suddenly bucked and died going up a slight hill. I drained fuel tank, cleaned tank as best I could, put on new sediment bowl and got about the same response -- 20 minutes of mowing and then died going up hill. Next time it didn't make it up the first incline. I see lots of comments on here and there seems to be 50 things that could be wrong. Beginning to think that AC's are made for parades not work.
I'm not a mechanic, learned on a Ford 8N (60+ years ago). Always admired AC tractors and thought I had a great find with this D15. Is there an online owner's manual? A neighbor that works at tractor supply brought me what he tought was an owner's manual and it is a shop manual. Says right on the front, "for professionals and experienced mechanics". Guess my neighbor has seen me looking under the hood so much he thought I knew what I was doing. It makes a nice $30 coffee table book!
1. Tractor starts right up. At first purred like a jungle cat, now has a bit of a pop/pop like it may be missing. When turned off it will sometimes have one backfire pop.
2. Tractor may "choke down" a bit when first pulling off with mower with pto running, but if it makes it past the first incline it will run for about 20 minutes (pulling through 2 to 2.5 foot tall weeds and grass nicely) then will "buck" and sound like it is out of gas - clutch in and choke pulled back will sometimes keep it running, but releasing clutch causes tractor will stop.
3. When it first starts to sputter, if I pull PTO off pull choke back and get it turned down hill I can push choke back in (*sometimes) and ride the buck back to my barn area.
4. Tractor temp gague goes out of the green into the white after about 20 minutes -- but tractor does not seem to be running "hot" -- there is no discharge from radiator cap (and I can see fluid in the top above the coil when stopped) and tractor does not appear to be overheated. I thougth that might be reason for stopping, but when I went out yesterday to do 20 minutes of mowing, temperature was barely in the green when it bucked and died.
5. I do not know what kind of spark plugs were put in when it was refurbished. It does have a new distributor and new plug wires, so I figure it has new plugs. Because of info on here I bought 4 Autolite 295 and am considering putting them in. Does anyone here think I should check other things first?
6. Anyone need a good looking D15 for a parade tractor?  |
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Tbone95
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Posted: 31 May 2019 at 1:53pm |
Well, the newest your tractor can be is 51 years old. While it's nice to think it should run flawlessly, when you buy anything with moving parts that old, you're going to have to work on it. LOTS of tractors made positive ground in that era. Even automobiles were sometimes positive ground. There wasn't a standard of such things for a while, and they work just fine and had nothing to do with AC deciding to do it. You say you have a shop manual, and while you claim to not be able to understand it, I suggest you look it over for the suspect areas and come on here and ask small, specific questions one section at a time, and the guys will get you through it. It's going to take some time and patience. If you have neither, you better have a big bank account and go buy something much much newer.
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Moneypit
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Posted: 31 May 2019 at 1:59pm |
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If it's possible look at sediment bowl when it bucks to see if it's full of fuel, replace any rubber fuel lines. Even if the look good could be collapsing inside, make sure there isn't gunk in the hard lines including above sediment bowl and tube going into gas tank .
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Scott B
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Posted: 31 May 2019 at 2:15pm |
Might have a coil issue on the "run for 20-25 minutes and stops". Especially if the 'tractor guy' converted to 12 volt and didn't change the coil.... Sounds more like a 'previous owner' issue vs. an Allis issue.
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D17 Series 1
Allis B- 1939
Allis B- 1945
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Strokendiesel002
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Posted: 31 May 2019 at 2:18pm |
Well, given your description, I'd bet it's a fuel delivery issue. Could be in the carb, but probably junk in the bottom of the tank. They make a filter that you stick into the inlet of your sediment bowl, before screwing into the bottom of the tank. I'd pop open the fill cap and shine a bright light around in there to see if you have crud floating around. Best practice would be to clean out the tank (muriatic acid works great for this) and install that additional filter.
As this is happening repeatedly on incline... your float could also be in need of adjustment (the specs should be in your service manual)
The snap-coupler can easily be converted to 3 point if there are other implement's you're looking to use. right around $500 for a decent one from what I've seen... there's even one in the classifieds as we speak for $300 or less in Ohio!
Best of luck!
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john(MI)
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Posted: 31 May 2019 at 2:20pm |
Could be something in the carb. They have a very simple carb and a rebuild kit usually has a parts diagram for checking every nook and cranny. Almost seems it has to be a fuel issue. It doesn't happen to have an inline fuel filter on it?
Does the governor work?
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D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446
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Lonn
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Posted: 31 May 2019 at 2:35pm |
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So you come on here bashing Allis? For having a positive ground system? Show me every manufacturer that didn't use positive ground. It was the standard back then and Allis was one of the first to go to negative ground.......................... You have a fuel problem and if the problem is past your knowledge and you no longer care to own an Allis, I'll give you $500 sight unseen and you can put that towards a new Kubota.
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-- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... -
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Tbone95
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Posted: 31 May 2019 at 2:37pm |
As always, .......could be lots of things. In a way, I can see this already frustrated guy getting frustrated even more, given that he read how many things it could be, then we come on and say, "could be the coil, could be fuel delivery, could be crud in the tank, could be something in carb, could be float..." Everyone is trying to help, I don't mean what I'm saying in a negative way to the members. I'm just saying, for a guy like this, it always comes down to the basics, fuel, air, spark. It is something! If it's something that changes on an incline, there are suggestions. If it is only after running "a time", I'd go with coil myself first. Point is, it is an old machine, and is going to need TLC from time to time. OP needs to decide if he's cut out for such things.
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Tbone95
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Posted: 31 May 2019 at 2:40pm |
 Lonn wrote:
So you come on here bashing Allis? For having a positive ground system? Show me every manufacturer that didn't use positive ground. It was the standard back then and Allis was one of the first to go to negative ground.......................... You have a fuel problem and if the problem is past your knowledge and you no longer care to own an Allis, I'll give you $500 sight unseen and you can put that towards a new Kubota.
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To the OP, I see you've met Lonn. He's the Senior Ambassador of our Welcoming Committee. 
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GT in Indiana
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Posted: 31 May 2019 at 2:46pm |
$700 is my final offer...
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1955 WD45 we like to call Ruby
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DennisA (IL)
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Posted: 31 May 2019 at 2:50pm |
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I have 10 AC tractors and 8 are positive ground and all run without issues. The oldest being 67 years.
I have 2 D-15 series II, one with snap coupler and one with 3 point. You should be able to find the implements you what. You just need to find the right contacts to setup a network. This is the best place to start so don't burn any bridges here.
I understand your frustration, I have a D-14 that gave me fits. It's issues sounds about the same as yours. I found out that the elbow which screws into the carburetor had a screen attached which was plugged. I removed the screen and adjusted the carburetor a bit and now it runs like a clock.
Take the drain plug out of the carb. It should be a steady flow of gas not just a trickle.
You can get a lot of help on this site, just ask the questions.
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Thanks & God Bless
Dennis
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exSW
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Posted: 31 May 2019 at 2:53pm |
Coil.
The AC part's got nothing to do with it. I'm an IH guy truth be told.
Edited by exSW - 31 May 2019 at 2:54pm
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Allis-Chalmers Damon
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Posted: 31 May 2019 at 2:59pm |
Anytime you buy something used you can be in for a few surprises. It may appear clean on the outside but often times there are mechanical things that have been neglected. Clean fuel tank, carb rebuild/adjustment and fresh gas will do wonders with your sputtering issues. Since it starts right up and purs like a kitten I bet it's a fuel delivery issue when under a load.
I have an all original D14 from 1959 that still runs like a top, but that doesn't mean I haven't encountered issues along the way. If you don't enjoy working on them I wouldn't own one, sometimes getting your hands dirty and learning about these machines is the best part.
Edited by Allis-Chalmers Damon - 31 May 2019 at 3:00pm
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1955 WD45 Diesel, 1959 D14, All-Crop Drill, 2015 John Deere 5075e, New Holland 279 Haybine, New Holland 575 square baler, New Holland 1032 Stackliner, 10ft Industrias Disc, 6ft Titan grapple
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Bill_MN
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Posted: 31 May 2019 at 3:07pm |
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"First AC may be my last" ...sounds like maybe you don't have the time or patience for an antique tractor, AC's are some of the finest tractors ever made.
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1951 WD #78283, 1918 Case 28x50 Thresher #76738, Case Centennial B 2x16 Plow
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DiyDave
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Posted: 31 May 2019 at 3:23pm |
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Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need!
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Gary Burnett
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Posted: 31 May 2019 at 3:30pm |
"Beautifully Refurbished" are the words that stand out.Translation is painted and that is probably about the end of what was done.Paint can hide all sorts or problems,and entice
the inexperienced buyer to not noticed problems.First off before even trying to use and especially work on any machine you need an Owners Manual and a Service Manual.Understanding how the machine works goes a long ways toward getting it to operate correctly.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 31 May 2019 at 3:40pm |
I'm betting sediment bowl stem is kinda plugged up. 'Troy', my #1 D-14 ( have 3) gave me grief last week... couple hours to wrench turning and he purrs fine, even pulling the 5' rototiller. The red flag I saw in your post was 'running for 2 or 3 minutes'. That's BAD for ANY engine !! You should always run an engine up to 'operating temperature' for 20-30 minutes. Less than that allows for huge condensation problems. All gas with ethonal in it is BAD news for engines unles you run a stabilizer or run them often. When left sitting, water comes out, drops to bottom of tank so it's FIRST into the carb, so engine , IF it starts, runs,coughs, dies... Positive ground was the industry standard back in the 50s, cars,trucks, tractors,subways.. all +ve ground. One reason for the change was economics. Negative ground alternators were/are cheaper to make.
As for the 'snap-coupler' setup, it's far easier, for me anyway, to put ANY implement on and go, in seconds. I've even converted my 5' 3pt tiller to SC as well as the landscape rake. One of the joys of SC system. You set the implements ONCE in it's lifetime even when you connect to another similar tractor ! I can use the plow with Troy, then swap to Rockton or Paris and plowins is IDENTICAL. You can't do that with 3 point stuff !!
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 31 May 2019 at 4:36pm |
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for a FUEL PROBLEM... the first thing you do is loosen the fuel tank cap and see if it is sealed too tight and pulling a vacuum after 20 minutes of operation... That's about how long it takes to drain enough fuel out to pull vacuum on the gas tank.... next is the sediment bowl, then the carb.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 31 May 2019 at 5:36pm |
C-Reid-Mac wrote:
Tractor Guy took tractor back and rewired including a new "hot wire" (that attached to negative terminal) that was bad. |
If you don't know how to fix things, Find a REAL mechanic. Your "Tractor Guy" must be a real dipstick. I gotta ask, does your D15 have a rubber hose for a fuel line and does it have a loop in the line that runs below the carburetor inlet? Or maybe an inline filter that isn't supposed to be there?
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C-Reid-Mac
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Posted: 31 May 2019 at 5:59pm |
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Thank you guys. My frustration showed in that post. I agree, would have been nice to have a lot of money and buy a new one. The shop manual shows how to take apart pieces and put them together (and I'm learning a lot about the parts reading about the ones that I could do something about), but does not have trouble shooting that would tell me what to check for if something is happening. I made that a long post so y'all would know the history and definitely prefer to take one thing at a time. I went out and started tractor this afternoon, started right up and ran with that slight "missing" sound. I watched fan belt saw liquid moving in top of radiator, no leakage around water pump. Once had warmed into green I got on and drove out of barn lot into pasture pulling 6 foot mower. Turned on pto and started mowing gentle incline and around apple tree. Was beginning to think I might get 20 minutes or so but, just as though processed, Big Al "coughed" once and stopped. I let it sit, had to choke it to start, died twice then made it back (I had gone about 200 feet from barn) to parking spot. I drained and cleaned fuel tank once (blowing it out best I could). I'm going to do that again Saturday and see if the muriatic acid treatment will help. I put a new sediment bowl (it has a small amount of very fine sediment in bottom after being cleaned of similar) when I cleaned it last weekend. The new one has a screen filter but not the filter that goes into the tank. I'm going to see if parts store has one of those and put that on. What would be good to do next? (Thanks again for all your replies. I hope to learn and be able to keep this tractor working for me.)
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C-Reid-Mac
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Posted: 31 May 2019 at 6:04pm |
CTuckerNWIL wrote:
If you don't know how to fix things, Find a REAL mechanic. Your "Tractor Guy" must be a real dipstick.
I gotta ask, does your D15 have a rubber hose for a fuel line and does it have a loop in the line that runs below the carburetor inlet? Or maybe an inline filter that isn't supposed to be there?
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No rubber hose. Fuel line that runs from sediment bowl to carburetor is metal. I took it off both ends and blew air through it from each end.
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C-Reid-Mac
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Posted: 31 May 2019 at 6:07pm |
steve(ill) wrote:
for a FUEL PROBLEM... the first thing you do is loosen the fuel tank cap and see if it is sealed too tight and pulling a vacuum after 20 minutes of operation... That's about how long it takes to drain enough fuel out to pull vacuum on the gas tank.... next is the sediment bowl, then the carb. |
Thanks. Original cap as far as I can tell. I don't think it is pulling a vacuum but I will check next.
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C-Reid-Mac
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Posted: 31 May 2019 at 6:13pm |
jaybmiller wrote:
I'm betting sediment bowl stem is kinda plugged up. 'Troy', my #1 D-14 ( have 3) gave me grief last week... couple hours to wrench turning and he purrs fine, even pulling the 5' rototiller. The red flag I saw in your post was 'running for 2 or 3 minutes'. That's BAD for ANY engine !! You should always run an engine up to 'operating temperature' for 20-30 minutes. Less than that allows for huge condensation problems. All gas with ethonal in it is BAD news for engines unles you run a stabilizer or run them often. When left sitting, water comes out, drops to bottom of tank so it's FIRST into the carb, so engine , IF it starts, runs,coughs, dies... Positive ground was the industry standard back in the 50s, cars,trucks, tractors,subways.. all +ve ground. One reason for the change was economics. Negative ground alternators were/are cheaper to make.
As for the 'snap-coupler' setup, it's far easier, for me anyway, to put ANY implement on and go, in seconds. I've even converted my 5' 3pt tiller to SC as well as the landscape rake. One of the joys of SC system. You set the implements ONCE in it's lifetime even when you connect to another similar tractor ! I can use the plow with Troy, then swap to Rockton or Paris and plowins is IDENTICAL. You can't do that with 3 point stuff !!
Jay
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Thank you Jay. That is kind of information I need. You convert three point hitch equipment to SC? That is what I would like to do, rather than convert Big Al to 3 point. I liked the SC when I bought this tractor but didn't know there was very little equipment available. Is there someplace online where I can get a guide as to that conversion? Read my post about today's event and you'll see that I changed the sediment bowl last weekend and am going to redo that cleaning of the gas tank tomorrow. I'll see if I can find a place where I can get gas that does not have ethanol in it. Thank you again.
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C-Reid-Mac
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Posted: 31 May 2019 at 6:19pm |
Gary Burnett wrote:
"Beautifully Refurbished" are the words that stand out.Translation is painted and that is probably about the end of what was done.Paint can hide all sorts or problems,and entice
the inexperienced buyer to not noticed problems.First off before even trying to use and especially work on any machine you need an Owners Manual and a Service Manual.Understanding how the machine works goes a long ways toward getting it to operate correctly.
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I agree Gary. Was reason I asked neighbor if they had such at Tractor Supply and he brought me the shop manual. He was going to check and see if they had Owners or Service manual -- I'll order both online if he doesn't. Thanks.
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C-Reid-Mac
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Posted: 31 May 2019 at 6:28pm |
Strokendiesel002 wrote:
Well, given your description, I'd bet it's a fuel delivery issue. Could be in the carb, but probably junk in the bottom of the tank. They make a filter that you stick into the inlet of your sediment bowl, before screwing into the bottom of the tank. I'd pop open the fill cap and shine a bright light around in there to see if you have crud floating around. Best practice would be to clean out the tank (muriatic acid works great for this) and install that additional filter.
As this is happening repeatedly on incline... your float could also be in need of adjustment (the specs should be in your service manual)
The snap-coupler can easily be converted to 3 point if there are other implement's you're looking to use. right around $500 for a decent one from what I've seen... there's even one in the classifieds as we speak for $300 or less in Ohio!
Best of luck! |
Thanks Stroke. I drained and cleaned the tank last weekend but I'm going to do that again and use the muriatic acid you suggested. I did have a few big pieces (about the size of a penny) in the gas that I drained from the tank. I put some fuel back in and blew it out with air hose, replaced sediment bowl. I poured gas through a large t-strainer to filter before putting back in tank. (This was new gas from a recent purchase). Thank you for taking time to suggest.
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C-Reid-Mac
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Posted: 31 May 2019 at 6:31pm |
Scott B wrote:
Might have a coil issue on the "run for 20-25 minutes and stops". Especially if the 'tractor guy' converted to 12 volt and didn't change the coil....Sounds more like a 'previous owner' issue vs. an Allis issue. |
Shop manual doesn't have coil listed in table of contents, and a man at the parts house suggested "coil" as well. I"m going to wait on the coil until I make sure I have the fuel delivery proper. Thanks for the suggestion.
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C-Reid-Mac
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Posted: 31 May 2019 at 6:35pm |
john(MI) wrote:
Could be something in the carb. They have a very simple carb and a rebuild kit usually has a parts diagram for checking every nook and cranny. Almost seems it has to be a fuel issue. It doesn't happen to have an inline fuel filter on it?
Does the governor work?
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John, thanks and I'm going to stay with fuel for now. It has a simple metal (copper?) fuel line from sediment bowl to carburetor. No enlargement for an inline fuel filter. I'm going to have to research where the governor is. Thank you.
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C-Reid-Mac
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Posted: 31 May 2019 at 6:43pm |
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C-Reid-Mac
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Posted: 31 May 2019 at 6:52pm |
Tbone95 wrote:
As always, .......could be lots of things. In a way, I can see this already frustrated guy getting frustrated even more, given that he read how many things it could be, then we come on and say, "could be the coil, could be fuel delivery, could be crud in the tank, could be something in carb, could be float..." Everyone is trying to help, I don't mean what I'm saying in a negative way to the members. I'm just saying, for a guy like this, it always comes down to the basics, fuel, air, spark. It is something! If it's something that changes on an incline, there are suggestions. If it is only after running "a time", I'd go with coil myself first. Point is, it is an old machine, and is going to need TLC from time to time. OP needs to decide if he's cut out for such things. |
Thanks Tbone. And for introducing the Welcoming Committee (Lonn) in the next post. I would not have posted on here if I didn't want to learn how to give Big Al some TLC. I've worked with horses all my life and only have experience with a Ford 8N (not a positive ground) that I did basic maintenance on but not much in way of being a mechanic. Wasn't thinking about this tractor being an "antique" as mentioned by another, but I did expect to have to provide good maintenance and upkeep. Your suggestions and those of the other guys are helping me learn. First thing is I have to get owners' and service manuals to go with my "coffee table" shop manual.  This tractor is not as old as I am and I want him to work as long as I do and am willing to learn what I can to help that hapen. Thanks again.
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DiyDave
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Posted: 31 May 2019 at 7:12pm |
C-Reid-Mac wrote:
Scott B wrote:
Might have a coil issue on the "run for 20-25 minutes and stops". Especially if the 'tractor guy' converted to 12 volt and didn't change the coil....Sounds more like a 'previous owner' issue vs. an Allis issue. |
Shop manual doesn't have coil listed in table of contents, and a man at the parts house suggested "coil" as well. I"m going to wait on the coil until I make sure I have the fuel delivery proper. Thanks for the suggestion. |
You can do a preliminary check of the coil, by sticking your hand on it, when the tractor stalls. If it feels real hot, you have what is known as a clue... 
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That was helpful. Figured I'd get a couple of you riled up. I posted on here because I want to keep this tractor and I figured this group knows what to do . (Throw a two-year old registered Quarter Horse or Thoroughbred onto that offer as "boot" and we'll negotiate! )