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NEVER green 
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 Topic: Engine rebuild
Posted: 01 Dec 2023 at 8:38am |
 DaveKamp wrote:
If I were wanting to run a round baler, the best modification I'd do to my D17's engine, is to get a Two-Twenty with a cab and AC.
Why?
The D17 is a fantastic tractor for raking hay, and making square bales. In my Grandfather's words, it was the 'finest hay-making tractor ever built'... and I agree, for the probably millions of square bales we put up... and that was the mainstay production system, until the Hesston square-baler showed up.
Grandpa ran some round bales with the D17, but it wasn't the tractor's engine that was the greatest need, it was environmental comfort and safety. Running the big roundie was absolutely impossible if the breeze came at you from any direction other than directly in your face.
I would not recommend an engine build investment on a D17 simply to run a round baler... I'd get a higher-power tractor with cab and AC... because there's a whole lot more to being effective and comfortable making round bales, than just compression ratio and fuel octane and PTO horsepower.
IF you have to build an engine's output up to make enough power for an agricultural load application, there's more significant problems waiting in the field that will stop your production when you're in the most operational peril.
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Even with a cab tractor while round baling I would turn out of the windrow to face the wind. Takes more time, yep, could not stand all that dust and debris getting in every nook and cranny.
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 30 Nov 2023 at 11:35pm |
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That's exactly what my Grandfather used... I spent three long weeks each summer on the rack with my uncle, loading them from stern to stem, hitching 10 racks up in a train, to the 6x6, with four more in the field, he sent me to drive that train through the field, up the apron, across the road, and up the gravel hill, into the big field north of the dairy barn, then into a big circle, set the brakes, shut it down, leave it in low, and walk the two miles back down to help fill the last four. My hands hurt just thinkin' about throwin' all those bales. The 6x6 went mebbie a whole 4mph in 4th gear throttled to 1200rpm, and while it was a really uncomfortable noisy drive, it sure felt nice to spend 20 minutes off my feet while that beast growled up that grade.
Edited by DaveKamp - 30 Nov 2023 at 11:37pm
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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HudCo
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Posted: 30 Nov 2023 at 7:45pm |
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dont know a bout a round baler but i grew up with a freind that baled round bales with a 3020 john deere but the d17 running the new holland small square baler is the best hay baling combo ever made, we custom baled in all conditions with a d17d when i was young
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cwsac.1
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Posted: 30 Nov 2023 at 7:21am |
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Buying them is not as fun probably have to break down and get a bigger one after I’m done dealing with this one
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 30 Nov 2023 at 7:04am |
The more economically sensible option, then, is to buy round bales... and either pay a little to have them delivered, or borrow a bale mover.
I'm neither an equestrian enthusiast nor a cattleman, but I've been just-entwined-enough in both to get the picture... For just one horse, you'd get much better quality, and lower waste with hand fed squares.
The other option, if you REALLY want to bale, and particularly if you're looking for an outlet for historical enthusiasm, is to look for an Allis Roto-Baler. It'll run nicely behind a WD-and-up. They made a cool loader to pick 'em up, too.
Putting cubic money into an engine may bring up PTO horsepower, it doesn't address any other issues that a large round baler's operation includes.
Edited by DaveKamp - 30 Nov 2023 at 7:07am
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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cwsac.1
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Posted: 29 Nov 2023 at 7:34am |
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Yeah, I understand it’s not big enough for today’s standards, but I only got one horse to feed not going in the business of making hay Mostly fun and don’t want to deal with a little square bales
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Gary
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Posted: 29 Nov 2023 at 7:29am |
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He is not referred to as "Dr Allis" just to have a 'cool name' LOL
G
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 29 Nov 2023 at 7:19am |
cwsac.1 wrote:
Cool very good thanks. Just curiosity how do you have all this crap memorized where you tractor, mechanics or something dr? |
He's been doing this a LOOOOOONG time... 
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 29 Nov 2023 at 7:14am |
If I were wanting to run a round baler, the best modification I'd do to my D17's engine, is to get a Two-Twenty with a cab and AC.
Why?
The D17 is a fantastic tractor for raking hay, and making square bales. In my Grandfather's words, it was the 'finest hay-making tractor ever built'... and I agree, for the probably millions of square bales we put up... and that was the mainstay production system, until the Hesston square-baler showed up.
Grandpa ran some round bales with the D17, but it wasn't the tractor's engine that was the greatest need, it was environmental comfort and safety. Running the big roundie was absolutely impossible if the breeze came at you from any direction other than directly in your face.
I would not recommend an engine build investment on a D17 simply to run a round baler... I'd get a higher-power tractor with cab and AC... because there's a whole lot more to being effective and comfortable making round bales, than just compression ratio and fuel octane and PTO horsepower.
IF you have to build an engine's output up to make enough power for an agricultural load application, there's more significant problems waiting in the field that will stop your production when you're in the most operational peril.
Edited by DaveKamp - 29 Nov 2023 at 7:16am
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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cwsac.1
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Posted: 28 Nov 2023 at 8:08pm |
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Cool very good thanks. Just curiosity how do you have all this crap memorized where you tractor, mechanics or something dr?
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DrAllis
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Posted: 28 Nov 2023 at 7:14pm |
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For 4.125" bore pistons with flat tops, I calculate a piston pin height of 2.300" to 2.305" to come out at 8.2 to 1.
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HudCo
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Posted: 28 Nov 2023 at 6:23pm |
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some one buy buy some stuff and measure it so i do not buy somthing i do not want .
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cwsac.1
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Posted: 28 Nov 2023 at 12:09pm |
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You probably already know the pin height needed don’t you dr to get 8.2 to 1
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DrAllis
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Posted: 28 Nov 2023 at 11:57am |
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It's not because they are flat top pistons. It's because they are so tall they have 12 to 1 compression ratio. A flat top piston in an AC of a specific pin height is higher compression than a Power crater piston of the same exact height because there is no bowl.
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WF owner
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Posted: 28 Nov 2023 at 11:38am |
DrAllis wrote:
8.0 or 8.2 to 1 compression ratio will run on 87 octane gas, YES. Ignition timing should be retarded from 25 degrees BTDC down to 22 or 23 degrees BTDC as per an A-C bulletin 45 yrs ago. |
The reason I asked was I have heard some of the guys saying that they were getting compression ratios of 12:1 with flat top pistons and some had to run aviation fuel.
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cwsac.1
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Posted: 28 Nov 2023 at 10:02am |
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Descriptions didn’t give compression ratio says high compression flat top pistons no Pin height given tried contacting vendor to ask questions waiting for a callback.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 28 Nov 2023 at 9:47am |
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Charlie, were yours 4 inch bore ?? or I'm thinking they were 4 1/8" ??
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HudCo
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Posted: 28 Nov 2023 at 9:31am |
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what is the pin hight
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cwsac.1
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Posted: 28 Nov 2023 at 9:05am |
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Good to know timing thanks knowI just need to get out it. Dang cold out though. let you know how it goes after I get all my measurements.
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cwsac.1
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Posted: 28 Nov 2023 at 8:58am |
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The one I found was 4 1/8 with that SKU
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HudCo
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Posted: 28 Nov 2023 at 8:54am |
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is that a wd 4 inch stroke piston
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DrAllis
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Posted: 28 Nov 2023 at 8:48am |
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8.0 or 8.2 to 1 compression ratio will run on 87 octane gas, YES. Ignition timing should be retarded from 25 degrees BTDC down to 22 or 23 degrees BTDC as per an A-C bulletin 45 yrs ago.
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cwsac.1
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Posted: 28 Nov 2023 at 7:39am |
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Thanks sk# number yes round bales
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WF owner
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Posted: 27 Nov 2023 at 5:55am |
Charlie175 wrote:
I have High Compression Flattops in my D17 that I searched for a long time to find. They are in the 8 or higher compression range. Look for SK156 pistons, They will give you a few more HP. I assume you are talking about a Round baler? |
Are you able to run regular gas with the flat top pistons?
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Charlie175
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Posted: 27 Nov 2023 at 5:43am |
I have High Compression Flattops in my D17 that I searched for a long time to find. They are in the 8 or higher compression range. Look for SK156 pistons, They will give you a few more HP. I assume you are talking about a Round baler?
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Charlie
'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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WF owner
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Posted: 27 Nov 2023 at 5:00am |
A D-17 will handle an average small baler, but I know a guy who has one of the newer Hesston inline small square balers and he pulls a 15 bale Kuhn accumulator. He says he needs at least 100 hp. on the baler. They make big windrows and run the baler near it's capacity. He says they can easily bale 2500 bales per day.
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AC720Man
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Posted: 26 Nov 2023 at 9:42pm |
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A stock D17 gas or diesel will handle a square baler with ease. My WD has no issue so expecting my D17D to handle it with ease next year. I can’t wait until hay season next year…I hope we have one after this years disaster year.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 26 Nov 2023 at 7:18pm |
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Balers are ran at 540 PTO speed/1650 RPM on the D-17 engine. Find yourself some 4 1/8" flat top piston/sleeve kit as I think someone has an 8.0 to 1 compression ratio offered. Do the camshaft grind if you want. Stick with stock carb for 1650 RPM so your governor action is acceptable. The 70 HP number was based upon 1800 loaded RPM. Can't do that with a baler at 1650 RPM. You don't need 70 HP for a baler size the weight of a D-17 can handle anyway.
Edited by DrAllis - 26 Nov 2023 at 7:23pm
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cwsac.1
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Posted: 26 Nov 2023 at 6:48pm |
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So I’m basically looking for the horsepower to run a baler, hoping I would needn’t to run it wide open no I don’t know what Baler I will be using yet was hoping to run some small round baler like 30 bales.
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cwsac.1
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Posted: 26 Nov 2023 at 6:34pm |
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Yeah I know I need to stay on topic newbie no pulling tractor just gonna use it to bail hay mostly just for fun. Got a little obsessed with tractors the last couple months. poler would be fun maybe sometime
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