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D19 turbo history

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bp4455 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bp4455 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: D19 turbo history
    Posted: 17 Jun 2019 at 12:24pm
Was the turbo heavily marketed? Did they make a big deal out of it? How did they sell?
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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2019 at 3:49pm
The D-19 turbo diesel was the first farm tractor to have a turbocharger from the factory. They ran and performed well. If they were used for heavy load work, they usually didn't run very long and they blew the head gasket. There were some overheating problems and cracked cylinder heads. The wet sleeves wound sink in the block, which helped the head gasket to blow again. After replacing the head gasket multiple times, many were traded off or sent to a scrap yard.
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Don(MI) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don(MI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2019 at 4:16pm
The sound of a D-19 diesel under load working, Is pure sweet music...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BillinAlberta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2019 at 4:54pm
My dad who worked in service  for Allis from 1954 to 1995 had a lot of stories.
There were lots of warranty claims about D19's .The fuel pumps were cranked up on lots of them.
Some would dyno way over spec.Even 100 hp was possible but the power output was
short lived.
  The story of the one guy who had cranked up the pump then worked the piss out of the tractor then it "all of a sudden" lost power.Dad cracked open the oil drain plug and the oil came out like goo.Needless to say the warranty claim was rejected which really choked this farmer .He was influential-the cousin of a prominent politician.The fight over that tractor and the farmers claim that it was defective affected the sales of Allis farm equipment for some years after in Western Canada and gave my dad what would now be called PTSD. It was brutal. I don't know how he carried on and maintained his dignity while being accused of some pretty awful stuff in the media.
   It was during this period that the service people from the various Ag Machinery companies and provincial government Ag Dept staff formed what would become the Prairie Agricultural Machinery Institute (PAMI). This case with the D19 tractor figured heavily in the founding of that group.Dad became a board advisor in those early days 
and there was always support for the Allis company from them.
   John Deere used this negative publicity to their advantage of course and there are still plenty of older guys around who "know" that Allis just sold junk and would not stand behind it.
   I remember this era well because of the family pain and upheaval that entitled privileged asshole caused.
    
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allisbred View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allisbred Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2019 at 6:03pm
I always enjoy reading others comments on the D19. We have always been Allis— going back to the WC, 45’s, D17’s and through the 100 series which have all been great machines. We had a D19 turbo diesel for a few year’s, ran smooth for short periods when it wasn’t in the shop, I always thought our slightly worked over 45’s had more guts on the pto, 19 had weight but would fall on its face as soon as it had to work any. Had to have been one of the worst tractors of its day for maintenance. On paper looked great, 38’s, 3pt, easy on fuel. Reality was; bad head, hard starting, bad transmission, no guts, poor hydraulics(left handed as well), poor power steering at low rpm and hard to see over in my opinion Neighbor had a gasser they tried to give us for a few hundred dollars with around 500 hours because it was so thirsty and couldn’t get a good trade in back then. He went green for that reason. I just was looking at old pictures mother took when we were kids, many times grinding feed. There was always two people in the pictures with the 19, one with the grinder shoveling and one watching the tractor for leaks or to cut back back the feeding auger when it started to smoke! Lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave(inMA) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2019 at 7:16pm
Sounds as though Allis learned a lot from the D-19 turbo diesel experience! As in how not to do it?!!? Where they really that bad?
WC, CA, D14, WD45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marlyn nwia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2019 at 7:18pm
I recall having coffee where the local dealer had a new, model D-19 on display.
He placed a small cardboard box on the drawbar and ran the engine wide open.
The little box stayed put! Very impressive!! especially to guys that ran two
cylinder John Deeres on a ham mills
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bp4455 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2019 at 7:27pm
How much was the turbo talked about?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omahagreg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2019 at 8:21pm
Dad and Grandpa farmed with AC near Jansen Nebraska.  Their dealer was Wells in Plymouth. The only things I heard Dad say about the 19 diesel was that he liked the 17 diesel MUCH better and that if you idled the 19 for awhile after working it was much better for the engine!
Greg Kroeker
1950 WD with wide front and Freeman trip loader
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote festus51 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2019 at 9:13pm
We had one for two years.  Had to be overhauled in one year.  Shut it off to go to lunch would be 90 degree day and had to use either to get it started for the afternoon.  Had to use   either all the time if you wanted it to start.   I like Allis but the D-19 diesel was a POS
We the unwilling Led by the unqualified Doing the impossible for the Ungrateful
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GregStremel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2019 at 9:48pm
We have a D19 diesel..it was our big tractor. It outperformed our D17 with the same implements.. we worked the same gear so it was basically the same load. It was fine. Not a tremendous upgrade, but it was good.

We have bigger tractors now. We have an 8070, two 7060s and a 7040. The D19 is mainly used on a grain auger. When we unload at the farm it is on a 10x72. Load out auger is 8x40. We have had at least two head gaskets go bad. I run it. I think if I let it slowly come to operating temperature it would last longer. I try, but sometimes I get anxious.
After the latest time, I just use the 7040 with a special pto shaft so I can run it on the 1000 side but at a fast idle for 540 rpm. This works better.

My brother does the repair work, and he is very good. But, after $1,000s of dollars, I wish we had purchased a 190 to run the augers. We use the D19 to run the load out auger and pull a trailer for school kids to ride when they come to the farm.

The repair bills have been high, but Dad bought it. He is gone but we will keep his tractor running.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allisplumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2019 at 10:55pm
A friend of mine has 2 d19d and they had there problems with the head gaskets till we got the head cut and checked, put ARP head studs in them and problem solved, they have them turned up and use them for tractor pulling all summer with no problems at all , on the dyno the newer of the two is at 130 hp , there was a poor design for the heads , not enough bolts and too far apart and no one ever thinks about putting new head bolts in , once a bolt is toque and stretched it should be replaced, if you put the ARP studs in them they will hold up fine , as long as the sleeves are with in spec height
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Calvin Schmidt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2019 at 5:51am
I remember our dealer holding a combine school in 1962. My uncle had just bought a Gleaner A. At the end the A-C blockman talked about the new D-19 diesel with the turbo. He said with 7 main bearings it was the only tractor engine strong enough to take the pressure of a turbo. I guess the top end hadn't started to cause the famous problems yet !
Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Trinity45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2019 at 6:53am
That has been a problem for many a tractor, they crank them up use them for jobs twice what they should be and then cry when something breaks.  I know a guy who has a AC 180 put a turbo on it cranked it up and is pulling a 20' disk with it.  So far she is still running but that is not what I want for my 185.  I had the mechanic check mine he estimated someone had turned it up to about 100 hp so I had him turn it down to about 85 to 90.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2019 at 7:10am
I would think it would be hard to get 100 hp out of an unmodified 185 just by turn the fuel up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2019 at 7:20am
BTW I have a D19 gas and other than the weak hydraulics and weak power steering it has been good to me. Used it as my heavy tractor back in the late '80s and early '90s. Makes a good comfortable haying tractor. Has a loader on it now but the clutch is stuck and incentive is low because of the skid loader. When I worked at the Allis dealer in the early '90's, they said lots of problems go away if you let the diesel 19 and also the 17 warm up before using and let it idle at about 1000 rpm while you go do calf chores. IH guys I knew back then said they would put a horse blanket over the engine on early IH diesels after parking the tractor. Also I remember reading service old bulletins on the Diesel D19 and that there were design changes in the later cylinder heads and that those cylinder heads were recommended when problems occurred. So the newer engines must have a better cylinder head. I don't know how to stop the sleeves from sinking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2019 at 7:38am
Cylinder sleeves sinking is solved by just leaving it in the shed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CAL(KS) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2019 at 8:01am
Originally posted by DrAllis DrAllis wrote:

Cylinder sleeves sinking is solved by just leaving it in the shed.
Do you agree with Macks opinion on the fire rings being too soft (compounded by the stretching of head bolts) or do you feel like the sleeve flange is too small and there is really no solution other than light use?


how do we explain the few that are pulling tractors?  on borrowed time?


Edited by CAL(KS) - 18 Jun 2019 at 8:04am
Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD10W,HD16

Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, R62, R72 HD15
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2019 at 8:20am
He's probably right on the fire ring thickness/harness thing. But, the flange lip is still too small/narrow regardless. I posted the dimensions on here some time ago as how the 262 engine sleeve lip compared to all the other AC engines and it was pretty sad.  As a gas engine, there was never a problem. With the higher compression of a diesel, it becomes a problem. Stick a turbo on that same engine and it is a HUGE problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GM Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2019 at 3:35pm
IMO the one issue that affected it had similar outcomes as the 1855 Oliver. No oil cooler.

Stuff holds together alot better when the oil is not trying turn to sludge... :)

We still have a factory 262 turbo on a C2 Gleaner and it treats us well, dad pulls it out yearly to keep it shined up. I make sure dad does not get cheap on oil, that one gets Mobil Delvac 1300. If it can keep my 6.5L GM pickup diesels from cratering, it can do the same for the ol 262... :)
Gleaner: the properly engineered and built combine.

If you need parts for your Gleaner, we are parting out A's through L2's, so we may be able to help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don(MI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2019 at 3:37pm
Does anyone know if the Gleaner CII combine in the 262 Diesel version experienced the same head problems? Or was it designed differently internally?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2019 at 3:40pm
Same engine. Same design. Never subjected to as many cold starts and hot stops as a tractor engine. Never LUGGED like a tractor engine. Never worked as hard as a tractor engine. Probably not as many problems as a result.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don(MI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2019 at 5:26pm
Ok, thanks just curious.

Mine has an actual Engine serial # Aluminum plate on it. We took a CII Diesel 262 engine and dropped it into our '62 D-19 diesel. Not much to change over and figure the CII engine had alot better life than the original D-19D engine
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2019 at 7:42am
Wasn't it Kevin TeVelde from up in Wa State having custom sleeves made with a larger diameter flange, then having the block counterbore bored out to match the sleeve? This arrangement along with fire-rings and an MLS head gasket should put an end to head gasket problems. I'd almost think the fire rings would work good even on stock sleeves, as long as the sleeves aren't sunken down too badly. The rings are kinda soft, and forgiving, so they will conform to the irregular sleeve heights. 
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlie175 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2019 at 7:50am
Only knew of 2 D19's around growing up. 1 sat in the shed as they had head gasket issues and didn't use it much. Was in great shape. Eventually it was sold to a collector
Other one was used for pulling and they changed the head gasket on a regular bases. Now retired to a dusty shop corner

Charlie

'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary Burnett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2019 at 9:21am
I have a D19 gas its been a tough reliable tractor for years.Been here about 50 years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kevin in WA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2019 at 9:35am
Yes Ed, we have had several sets of oversized flange sleeves made at LA Sleeve, the flange is about twice as wide and .020 thousands taller to allow a badly eroded block to be cleaned up. I have installed about 6 sets so far with good results, it still would be nice to find a better quality gasket with better fire rings for a permanent fix  for these engines.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2019 at 12:48pm
I get MLS gaskets from SealTec along with their rings. Anyone can deal with them, but for some applications, I've done the leg work and keep some various ones in stock. They need a pattern, and can make any head gasket you want. 
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2019 at 12:56pm
Originally posted by Marlyn nwia Marlyn nwia wrote:

You forgot to tally the amount of 'BS" from old retired college professors;
it would certainly add to Sioux County's supply of poop!
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My grandfather had a brand new one but only kept it one year and got a 190XT. His problem was the depth control. They had a 4 bottom semi mounted plow and when you lowered the plow the front went in first then the back. The problem was the whole plow had to be down before the draft control would work and the front of the plow always went to deep before the draft took hold. Dealer was out several times both spring and fall and could not fix it. The next year made him a great deal on a 190XT,6 bottom reset plow and a 780 chopper. Tom
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