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Coolant???

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Mikez View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Coolant???
    Posted: 27 Dec 2021 at 7:10am
Hello everyone
There’s a similar post that made me think of this. Just had the radiator repaired in 200. It doesn’t have the filter on it, so it’s not getting the additive. I had always had intentions of putting filters on our tractors for that reason. But the other post someone said to just use I think cat coolant with additives in it. Is that what you guys suggest. 
Thanks
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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2021 at 7:21am
If you can buy coolant that is already treated and does what a filter would do, why would you spend the time and $$$$$$$$$$ mounting a filter ?? I know of no new diesel engines that use a coolant filer. They just use the correct coolant. Cat, Cummins, Deere all have the treated stuff to sell.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alvin M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2021 at 7:27am
I sold Balwin filters I used there additive 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2021 at 7:35am
Adding "additives" to store bought straight antifreeze mixed with iron filled well water isn't anywhere nearly as good as the pre-mixed treated coolant that is recommended by all modern day diesel engine manufacturers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2021 at 8:29am
We've always used Alliance pre-mix in all of our Cummins engines at the power co. Red in color. Does a great job in protection as well as keeping the cooling system super clean. I remember when removing a worn water pump, how clean the inside of the engine block was!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed (Ont) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2021 at 10:59am
Just pick any of todays modern premixed coolants as the others have said and stick with it. Pick a brand that you like and can get easily. If you have multiple vehicles gradually switch them all to same stuff. Heavy truck dealerships or suppliers are a great source and their prices are usually better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tbran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2021 at 12:56pm
What one wants is neutral ph - like comes in premix -  local truck shop uses litmus test strips and either acid or basic tablets to keep it there... extends antifreeze service life.  
When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2021 at 5:23pm
So is it likely that store bought distilled water and concentrate red is not going to have the correct ph when mixed?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HudCo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2021 at 7:42pm
if you have drained it,    then full stranht antifreeze and distilled water 50/50 your cooling system will last many years  i have not seen a coolant filter on any thing for years . if you want to put treatment stuff in we used nalcool thirty years ago
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KJCHRIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2021 at 7:49pm
As already said, forget about the conditioner/filter install. Go with the extended life 50/50 mix. Most small town water systems much less a farm well don't have clean enough water to put in with the extended life coolants. 
We went thru this at work nearly 20 years ago on Cat, IH & Cummins diesel engines in a fleet of 1000+ trucks, plus loaders, graders etc.. When we switched to preblended coolant we saw within 2 years a reduction in cooling system repairs and engine sleeve sealing failures. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2021 at 8:14pm
sorry that’s kinda what I meant instead of filter using modern antifreeze. We’ll drain the block. And start with some good new stuff. Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2021 at 9:01pm
I have rebuilt a lot of AC engines over the years. If it had a coolest filter, the block was clean as new on inside and very little erosion  on sleeves and block. If no filter there was always a lot of sludge and rust inside. A filter a year is a pretty cheep price to pay for a clean cooling system.                    MACK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2021 at 10:00pm
Originally posted by SteveM C/IL SteveM C/IL wrote:

So is it likely that store bought distilled water and concentrate red is not going to have the correct ph when mixed?

Wondering the same thing here. This is what I have always done as distilled has no minerals and should have a neutral pH? In fact I think a lot of manuals for various equipment used to specify using distilled water when mixing.

Way cheaper than 50/50 premixed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed (Ont) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2021 at 9:40am
Using distilled water and mixing your coolant properly should work fine. Can’t see it saving you much by the time you run around doing that and then mixing it. But it should work. If you are doing it yourself okay. If paying someone to do maintenance would cost you more!  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allis dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2022 at 12:45pm
When using the good premixed coolant without a filter, Should you add more additive or drain at certain intervals? 
My 185 only sees about 20 hours a year. I don't want to drain and replace every year if it isn't necessary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2022 at 1:15pm
Many Cat engines are do nothing for 2 to 3,000 hrs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lars(wi) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2022 at 4:49pm
I buy straight antifreeze, then mix with distilled water. Have done that way for decades. Distilled water cost maybe a $1.25 a gallon. If you do the math, it’s cheaper to buy pure antifreeze, and distilled water.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2022 at 7:07pm
But your potion is not treated to prevent cavitation erosion/sleeve pitting. That additive would be Xtra cost.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FREEDGUY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2022 at 7:17pm
Originally posted by DrAllis DrAllis wrote:

But your potion is not treated to prevent cavitation erosion/sleeve pitting. That additive would be Xtra cost.
So no straight A/F is equipped with the additives in the jug that will be mixed with distilled water ? Just curios 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2022 at 8:08pm
Got to be careful what we're talking about here. For diesel farm tractors, you want heavy duty diesel engine coolant which is reddish pink in color !! Not any other color and not for automotive...HEAVY DUTY DIESEL ENGINE use. If you can buy it straight and use distilled water to dilute, then that is fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2022 at 8:17pm
Dr Allis, about 4 years back my AGCO dealer gave me straight green anti freeze for my brother's 7030. I assumed it was treated ...... at least I hope it was. I told them it was for the 7030 and I paid a healthy price for it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2022 at 8:34pm
I think they gave you a straight shafting.                    MACK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CrestonM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2022 at 8:37pm
Originally posted by MACK MACK wrote:

I think they gave you a straight shafting.                    MACK

One of the reasons this site is so nice. Even just daily reading through the posts is enough to teach people a few things that might help them learn something the dealer may not tell them or warn them about.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2022 at 8:43pm
And one more thing.....If you use this treated modern antifreeze, do NOT use a water filter!!  The two things don't get along !! If you have a water filter, shut off the valves. If there is a heavy duty diesel coolant out there that prevents cavitation erosion of wet sleeves and it isn't reddish/pinkish in color, I don't know about it. There could be, but I prefer to stick with what I absolutely know works.

Edited by DrAllis - 04 Jan 2022 at 8:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2022 at 8:51pm
Okay thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2022 at 10:26pm
You can buy the red heavy duty diesel coolant in concentrate and add 50% distilled water. Since it's sold for that purpose,I assume it's treated accordingly. I could go out and read the bottle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allis dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2022 at 6:38am
We buy the Deere Coolant from the Dealer. It's a yellowish green color
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2022 at 7:41am
That's nice, dave.  John Deere has gasoline tractors too. So, what is this coolant designed for ??? Diesel engines with coolant filters on them??   Heavy Duty turbo diesel engines without coolant filters ??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pirlbeck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2022 at 7:55am
I know this is long but there is a lot of good information in this article. At least be sure to read "HOW DO SCA'S PREVENT LINER PITTING"? 

According to the information supplied by the leading heavy-duty engine manufacturers, 40% of all premature engine failures can be traced to some deficiency in the cooling system. Neglecting maintenance can be costly. Engine Coolant performs a number of important functions: ■ Removes heat ■ Lubricates components (such as water pumps) ■ Provides freeze protection ■ Prevents scale/sludge formation ■ Protects against corrosion The first three functions can be accomplished by using a lowsilicate antifreeze and water mixture which is commonly referred to as coolant. Additional chemicals must be introduced to the system to prevent scale and sludge formation and to provide corrosion protection. To achieve these functions, supplemental coolant additives must be added to the system either as a liquid or as a dissolving solid contained in the coolant filter. Supplemental Coolant Additives (SCAs) typically contain inhibitors designed to prevent generalized corrosion as well as cavitation erosion, polymers that keep hard water scale from depositing on engine surfaces and buffers to reduce the acidity of the coolant. When used according to manufacturers’ recommendations, most SCAs are beneficial.

 HOW DO SCAs PREVENT LINER PITTING? Cylinder liner perforation is a common cause of premature failure in unprotected engines. Liner pitting occurs as collapsing air bubbles in the coolant scour away at the unprotected outer surface of the liner. Estimates show that these imploding bubbles can generate pressures in excess of 60,000 PSI at the surface of the liner wall. If left unchecked, complete perforation of the liner is likely. Technically, this scouring process is known as cavitation erosion. While it can appear anywhere on the cylinder liner, most pitting occurs as a narrow vertical band, perpendicular to the axis of the crankshaft. A secondary band may be found on the opposite side of the liner. The air bubbles are primarily the result of vibration of the liner wall as the piston travels up and down in the cylinder bore. Therefore, any change in the design of the engine which increases the vibration of the liner (such as thinner cylinder walls, longer sleeves or poor mechanical fit) will increase the potential for liner perforation. To combat the effect of cavitation erosion, all heavy-duty engine manufacturers recommend the use of SCAs. The SCAs coat the liner walls with a hard oxide film that acts as a barrier between the liner wall and the collapsing air bubbles, but does not significantly impede heat transfer. While the SCAs cannot prevent the formation or collapse of the bubbles, the oxide film is thick enough to keep the bubbles away from the liner surface, thus effectively preventing pitting of the liners.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smallfarm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2022 at 3:03pm
I use Chevron Delo ELC in everything. If I do any repair gas diesel or anything it's Delo. If it has a filter I change them. I actually just changed the heater core on my truck and added a filter. Not all filters are the same, some have chemicals some don't. My truck runs a non chemical filter I want the 25 micron filtration to prevent another plugged core. Any Ram owner knows what I'm talking about.
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