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Coolant???

Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=185354
Printed Date: 28 Mar 2024 at 8:32am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Coolant???
Posted By: Mikez
Subject: Coolant???
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2021 at 7:10am
Hello everyone
There’s a similar post that made me think of this. Just had the radiator repaired in 200. It doesn’t have the filter on it, so it’s not getting the additive. I had always had intentions of putting filters on our tractors for that reason. But the other post someone said to just use I think cat coolant with additives in it. Is that what you guys suggest. 
Thanks



Replies:
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2021 at 7:21am
If you can buy coolant that is already treated and does what a filter would do, why would you spend the time and $$$$$$$$$$ mounting a filter ?? I know of no new diesel engines that use a coolant filer. They just use the correct coolant. Cat, Cummins, Deere all have the treated stuff to sell.


Posted By: Alvin M
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2021 at 7:27am
I sold Balwin filters I used there additive 


Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2021 at 7:35am
Adding "additives" to store bought straight antifreeze mixed with iron filled well water isn't anywhere nearly as good as the pre-mixed treated coolant that is recommended by all modern day diesel engine manufacturers.


Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2021 at 8:29am
We've always used Alliance pre-mix in all of our Cummins engines at the power co. Red in color. Does a great job in protection as well as keeping the cooling system super clean. I remember when removing a worn water pump, how clean the inside of the engine block was!
Steve@B&B


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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife


Posted By: Ed (Ont)
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2021 at 10:59am
Just pick any of todays modern premixed coolants as the others have said and stick with it. Pick a brand that you like and can get easily. If you have multiple vehicles gradually switch them all to same stuff. Heavy truck dealerships or suppliers are a great source and their prices are usually better.


Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2021 at 12:56pm
What one wants is neutral ph - like comes in premix -  local truck shop uses litmus test strips and either acid or basic tablets to keep it there... extends antifreeze service life.  

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When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..


Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2021 at 5:23pm
So is it likely that store bought distilled water and concentrate red is not going to have the correct ph when mixed?


Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2021 at 7:42pm
if you have drained it,    then full stranht antifreeze and distilled water 50/50 your cooling system will last many years  i have not seen a coolant filter on any thing for years . if you want to put treatment stuff in we used nalcool thirty years ago


Posted By: KJCHRIS
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2021 at 7:49pm
As already said, forget about the conditioner/filter install. Go with the extended life 50/50 mix. Most small town water systems much less a farm well don't have clean enough water to put in with the extended life coolants. 
We went thru this at work nearly 20 years ago on Cat, IH & Cummins diesel engines in a fleet of 1000+ trucks, plus loaders, graders etc.. When we switched to preblended coolant we saw within 2 years a reduction in cooling system repairs and engine sleeve sealing failures. 


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AC 200, CAH, AC185D bareback, AC 180D bareback, D17 III, WF. D17 Blackbar grill, NF. D15 SFW. Case 1175 CAH, Bobcat 543B,


Posted By: Mikez
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2021 at 8:14pm
sorry that’s kinda what I meant instead of filter using modern antifreeze. We’ll drain the block. And start with some good new stuff. Thanks


Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2021 at 9:01pm
I have rebuilt a lot of AC engines over the years. If it had a coolest filter, the block was clean as new on inside and very little erosion  on sleeves and block. If no filter there was always a lot of sludge and rust inside. A filter a year is a pretty cheep price to pay for a clean cooling system.                    MACK


Posted By: wjohn
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2021 at 10:00pm
Originally posted by SteveM C/IL SteveM C/IL wrote:

So is it likely that store bought distilled water and concentrate red is not going to have the correct ph when mixed?

Wondering the same thing here. This is what I have always done as distilled has no minerals and should have a neutral pH? In fact I think a lot of manuals for various equipment used to specify using distilled water when mixing.

Way cheaper than 50/50 premixed.


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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45


Posted By: Ed (Ont)
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2021 at 9:40am
Using distilled water and mixing your coolant properly should work fine. Can’t see it saving you much by the time you run around doing that and then mixing it. But it should work. If you are doing it yourself okay. If paying someone to do maintenance would cost you more!  


Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2022 at 12:45pm
When using the good premixed coolant without a filter, Should you add more additive or drain at certain intervals? 
My 185 only sees about 20 hours a year. I don't want to drain and replace every year if it isn't necessary.


Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2022 at 1:15pm
Many Cat engines are do nothing for 2 to 3,000 hrs.


Posted By: Lars(wi)
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2022 at 4:49pm
I buy straight antifreeze, then mix with distilled water. Have done that way for decades. Distilled water cost maybe a $1.25 a gallon. If you do the math, it’s cheaper to buy pure antifreeze, and distilled water.

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I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.


Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2022 at 7:07pm
But your potion is not treated to prevent cavitation erosion/sleeve pitting. That additive would be Xtra cost.


Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2022 at 7:17pm
Originally posted by DrAllis DrAllis wrote:

But your potion is not treated to prevent cavitation erosion/sleeve pitting. That additive would be Xtra cost.
So no straight A/F is equipped with the additives in the jug that will be mixed with distilled water ? Just curios 


Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2022 at 8:08pm
Got to be careful what we're talking about here. For diesel farm tractors, you want heavy duty diesel engine coolant which is reddish pink in color !! Not any other color and not for automotive...HEAVY DUTY DIESEL ENGINE use. If you can buy it straight and use distilled water to dilute, then that is fine.


Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2022 at 8:17pm
Dr Allis, about 4 years back my AGCO dealer gave me straight green anti freeze for my brother's 7030. I assumed it was treated ...... at least I hope it was. I told them it was for the 7030 and I paid a healthy price for it.

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Wink
I am a Russian Bot


Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2022 at 8:34pm
I think they gave you a straight shafting.                    MACK


Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2022 at 8:37pm
Originally posted by MACK MACK wrote:

I think they gave you a straight shafting.                    MACK

One of the reasons this site is so nice. Even just daily reading through the posts is enough to teach people a few things that might help them learn something the dealer may not tell them or warn them about.


Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2022 at 8:43pm
And one more thing.....If you use this treated modern antifreeze, do NOT use a water filter!!  The two things don't get along !! If you have a water filter, shut off the valves. If there is a heavy duty diesel coolant out there that prevents cavitation erosion of wet sleeves and it isn't reddish/pinkish in color, I don't know about it. There could be, but I prefer to stick with what I absolutely know works.


Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2022 at 8:51pm
Okay thanks

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-- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... -
Wink
I am a Russian Bot


Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2022 at 10:26pm
You can buy the red heavy duty diesel coolant in concentrate and add 50% distilled water. Since it's sold for that purpose,I assume it's treated accordingly. I could go out and read the bottle.


Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2022 at 6:38am
We buy the Deere Coolant from the Dealer. It's a yellowish green color


Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2022 at 7:41am
That's nice, dave.  John Deere has gasoline tractors too. So, what is this coolant designed for ??? Diesel engines with coolant filters on them??   Heavy Duty turbo diesel engines without coolant filters ??


Posted By: pirlbeck
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2022 at 7:55am
I know this is long but there is a lot of good information in this article. At least be sure to read "HOW DO SCA'S PREVENT LINER PITTING"? 

According to the information supplied by the leading heavy-duty engine manufacturers, 40% of all premature engine failures can be traced to some deficiency in the cooling system. Neglecting maintenance can be costly. Engine Coolant performs a number of important functions: ■ Removes heat ■ Lubricates components (such as water pumps) ■ Provides freeze protection ■ Prevents scale/sludge formation ■ Protects against corrosion The first three functions can be accomplished by using a lowsilicate antifreeze and water mixture which is commonly referred to as coolant. Additional chemicals must be introduced to the system to prevent scale and sludge formation and to provide corrosion protection. To achieve these functions, supplemental coolant additives must be added to the system either as a liquid or as a dissolving solid contained in the coolant filter. Supplemental Coolant Additives (SCAs) typically contain inhibitors designed to prevent generalized corrosion as well as cavitation erosion, polymers that keep hard water scale from depositing on engine surfaces and buffers to reduce the acidity of the coolant. When used according to manufacturers’ recommendations, most SCAs are beneficial.

 HOW DO SCAs PREVENT LINER PITTING? Cylinder liner perforation is a common cause of premature failure in unprotected engines. Liner pitting occurs as collapsing air bubbles in the coolant scour away at the unprotected outer surface of the liner. Estimates show that these imploding bubbles can generate pressures in excess of 60,000 PSI at the surface of the liner wall. If left unchecked, complete perforation of the liner is likely. Technically, this scouring process is known as cavitation erosion. While it can appear anywhere on the cylinder liner, most pitting occurs as a narrow vertical band, perpendicular to the axis of the crankshaft. A secondary band may be found on the opposite side of the liner. The air bubbles are primarily the result of vibration of the liner wall as the piston travels up and down in the cylinder bore. Therefore, any change in the design of the engine which increases the vibration of the liner (such as thinner cylinder walls, longer sleeves or poor mechanical fit) will increase the potential for liner perforation. To combat the effect of cavitation erosion, all heavy-duty engine manufacturers recommend the use of SCAs. The SCAs coat the liner walls with a hard oxide film that acts as a barrier between the liner wall and the collapsing air bubbles, but does not significantly impede heat transfer. While the SCAs cannot prevent the formation or collapse of the bubbles, the oxide film is thick enough to keep the bubbles away from the liner surface, thus effectively preventing pitting of the liners.


Posted By: Smallfarm
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2022 at 3:03pm
I use Chevron Delo ELC in everything. If I do any repair gas diesel or anything it's Delo. If it has a filter I change them. I actually just changed the heater core on my truck and added a filter. Not all filters are the same, some have chemicals some don't. My truck runs a non chemical filter I want the 25 micron filtration to prevent another plugged core. Any Ram owner knows what I'm talking about.


Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2022 at 7:47am
John Deere Cool Guard II says it prevents corrosion, cavitation, rusting, and scaling

When I walk in it's there in the stack of oils and fluids and it's what they grab when we ask for anti freeze or what the mechanics bring to the fields. Comes in 2.5 gallon premixed jugs and goes in everything from the 3020 to mid 2000's year because that's the newest we have. I don't think it's the same as NAPA green stuff that says for automobile and light trucks.

I'd guess it's similar to the Case IH antifreeze. I've notices Case IH hyd oil has a reddish tint to it which makes me wonder if they like to add red dye or something, while JD hyd oil and antifreeze looks more "normal"




Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2022 at 9:55am
the JD web site says it is a COMPLETE system and does not need addatives or filter..Says it is a 6 year USE mix.

Im sure JD does not make antifreeze... They have a contract with others.. Just tell them to leave out the RED DYE in the JD batch.


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Like them all, but love the "B"s.


Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2022 at 10:13am
Deere has just made it more confusing by not having the same color of coolant. Oh well.


Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2022 at 11:33am
JD greene to match the undies


Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2022 at 3:30pm
EXACTLY !!  LOL

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Like them all, but love the "B"s.


Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2022 at 5:03pm
Please correct me if I’m wrong to make sure I’m understanding this.

All the Allis diesels I’ve been around (433, 649, 670) have had green antifreeze and coolant conditioner filters. Book says change antifreeze every 2 years, coolant conditioner filter every 600 hrs.
My understanding was back then the green antifreeze was all they had.

So if a person drained the antifreeze and switched to a more modern red heavy duty diesel antifreeze with the conditioner already mixed in it, one would not need the filter?

But if one continues to use the green antifreeze then one should change the coolant and filter at the book suggested intervals?

Thanks


Posted By: Smallfarm
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2022 at 5:13pm
Creston, I'm with you on that analysis. Green=more maintenance and Red = Less. Like I said in my post if you don't need the filter with conditioner get a suitable substitute without chemicals. Nothing wrong with clean products and keeping them clean.


Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2022 at 8:12pm
In my days as a Ford tech, we got most of Ziegler Caterpillar’s 6.0 powered trucks. They started using their ELC coolant and I noticed they had almost no oil cooler and EGR cooler problems afterwards.

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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford


Posted By: Greg(WI)
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2022 at 10:06am
Am looking at draining and replacing the coolant in my 175 .  Going to go with the heavy duty pink antifreeze.  Assuming that this would not matter with having an external circulating block heater but just wanted to get your opinions.  Do you usually just drain at the radiator?  Need to look in the book to see how many gallons I will need.



Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2022 at 1:30pm
You best drain every where possible and refill with water and drain again. You won't like the results of pink and green together. In other words,it needs totally flushed.


Posted By: Ed (Ont)
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2022 at 6:01pm
Steve is right. Drain and refill with water. May be a good time to add some cleaner too. There are all sorts out there. Add some and fill with water. run and drain. Then go with whatever colour you choose. 


Posted By: Ed (Ont)
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2022 at 6:07pm
This has been a very informative thread. I have tried to stay informed on coolant but like a lot of things as you learn it gets even more confusing. These new coolants claim to be more environment friendly but when you read the label they are all still ethylene glycol based so kind of confused on that. 


Posted By: Ed (Ont)
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2022 at 6:17pm
Another question or maybe opinion. Does the red tend to leak more than green. Seems coolant leaks are more common now than before. Or is it just that the systems now are more complex and so many more places to leak. We are always chasing coolant leaks on diesel engines now. 


Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2022 at 6:37am
Red seems to leak easier, yes.



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