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Charging system conundrum

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OhKen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OhKen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2019 at 6:12am
Put some LED lights on your loader and you won't have a problem with the battery being drained that quick . Prefer a volt gauge over ammeter .

Edited by OhKen - 13 Dec 2019 at 6:14am
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truckerfarmer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote truckerfarmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2019 at 6:58am
Thanks fellas. That clears things up. I was under the impression there was a button to push, so I was using a wooden stick so I wouldn't short something. Now I understand that is the object.

This forum is a wealth of knowledge.
Looking at the past to see the future.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truckerfarmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2019 at 10:47pm
Yes, it is negative ground.
Looking at the past to see the future.
'53 WD, '53 WD45, WD snap coupler field cultivator, #53 plow,'53 HD5B dozer

Duct tape.... Can't fix stupidity. But will muffle the sound of it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim.ME Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2019 at 4:56am
Good. Keep us posted on how you make out with testing it.
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truckerfarmer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truckerfarmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2019 at 10:40pm
Tried shorting the rectifier to the case tonight. No luck.
Looking at the past to see the future.
'53 WD, '53 WD45, WD snap coupler field cultivator, #53 plow,'53 HD5B dozer

Duct tape.... Can't fix stupidity. But will muffle the sound of it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dnoym N. S. Can. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2019 at 11:35pm
#1 put your test light clip on the alternator case
#2 put your light probe on the white bat stud
dose the light come on if yes
#3 cut  your green and red wire off at the
connector peel them back and twist them
together  get a 194 bulb and socket and connect
one end to the red and green wire and the other
end to the white Battery stud on the alternator
the 194 bulb should light up
#4  start the motor and 1/2  throttle.
dose the light go out?


   HTH       B:-)      Dnoym
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BrianC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrianC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2019 at 7:04am
If your battery is 11.5 volts it is considered low, 0 percent of charge. Charge it up.

The whole idiot light/led resistor thing has me confused. A small signal led cannot pass enough current, 0.03 amps would be typical. The original indicator lamp would pass 0.28 amps ( 9 times more). Adding 10 ohm or 5 ohm resistors will only throttle down the current flow even slightly more, if they are in series. So we don't know how that is actually connected. The LED is the unknown, we all suggested getting rid of the LED.
This thread is getting long, but I didn't read where you said more or less "I now have only the 5 ohm resistor, no more LED".

A good 10SI alternator wired up per Steve's diagram will work. If you had that set up and it still didn't charge, then the alternator is bad.

I think the grounding of the regulator for full output test with screw driver in the D shaped hole will only work if the #1 and #2 terminals are wired up correct. Not sure on that point. But it could render the test inconclusive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim.ME Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2019 at 7:43am
Dnoym's check for power at the battery terminal is a good point, I don't think you have posted that you ever checked the voltage there. What does the voltage show at that terminal? If there is a bad connection some where in that circuit, and that wire is "dead", it won't show charge at the battery.

Has the engine been run with that battery wire disconnected, or a cable disconnected from the battery, since the new alternator was installed? Alternators are not like generators in that they can fail if there is no place for output to go, thus one should never disconnect a battery cable to check an alternator.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC(WI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2019 at 10:15am
If his battery is 11.6 volts and still turns the engine over, the alternator should still charge it. 

 Truckerfarmer, DO You have app. 12 positive VOLTS at the alternator charge terminal post?
If you do, make a jumper set of wires with a pigtail and put on R1 and F2, with pigtail   that will reach the main terminal lug on the alternator... do not connect pigtail yet.
Now hook up your tester from ground post on alternator and the positve lead on the charging post. Meter should be reading battery voltage.
Start the tractor.
Tester should still be reading original volts.
Now take the pigtail from R1,F2 and apply directly to charge terminal post.
 Did your meter change at all, it should be charging 13.6-14.3 volts. If it isn't, the alternator needs looking at...
 If your batter is really low, it might take a few minutes to show higher voltage. hth
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2019 at 12:12pm
The  10 OHM resister in the line to #1 terminal is in SERIES with the alternator.. The CURRENT is constant in that line... The resister is used to slightly DROP the voltage so a lower value voltage is noted at the #1 terminal.. That low voltage is the SIGNAL to tell the alternator to start charging.. If you connect the #1 and #2 terminals, I don't think it will ever decide to charge.. You need a VOLTAGE DROP to #1 to SIGNAL it to startup..... The Lightbulb is suppose to do the same thing, but I always use the 10 ohm resister... As mentioned, if you have the #2 terminal and the BIG lug connected to the battery, and have a 10 ohm resister in the line to #1 terminal, and it don't charge, then the alternator has a problem ( internal voltage regulator bad).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2019 at 12:16pm
I use the 10 ohm resistor because I had a DELCO Service Manual about 1975 and it had a procedure to test the alternator on the bench..... always works... They used the 10 ohm resistor connected to the #1 terminal.. If you go to the AUto Store and have yours tested, I assume inside the machine it is using a similar setup.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truckerfarmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2019 at 10:43pm
Have the proper voltages at the different terminals. The resistor creates a draw at the alternator triggering it to start charging. Without a load it won't charge.
Didn't change out the white wire right away when I first put the alternator on, so thinking I may have fried the rectifier.
Looking at the past to see the future.
'53 WD, '53 WD45, WD snap coupler field cultivator, #53 plow,'53 HD5B dozer

Duct tape.... Can't fix stupidity. But will muffle the sound of it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim.ME Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2019 at 5:03am
Sounds like it may be time to pull it off and have it checked again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truckerfarmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2019 at 8:01am
Pulled the alternator and had it checked again. Tested as good, again. Gonna be a nice day today, 38* and sunshine, so hope to work on it this afternoon. Picked up a battery load tester, so will put full load to it and see what happens.
Looking at the past to see the future.
'53 WD, '53 WD45, WD snap coupler field cultivator, #53 plow,'53 HD5B dozer

Duct tape.... Can't fix stupidity. But will muffle the sound of it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2019 at 10:01am
The proper charging voltage is 14.200 volts.

The series resistor on the regulator supply wire from the gas tractor ignition circuit is there to prevent the regulator back feeding power to the tractor ignition circuit to allow the tractor to stop with the ignition switch turned off.

Gerald J.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2019 at 10:47am
Originally posted by truckerfarmer truckerfarmer wrote:

The resistor creates a draw at the alternator triggering it to start charging. Without a load it won't charge.

 That CAN'T be right! I have had 2 tractors set up with this style alternator and Neither one has any kind of resistor anywhere in the charging system.
 I also have no idiot light. I put a diode in the green 'exciting' wire and hooked the red wire to the Battery stud on the alternator. It's worked fine for 15 years on my WD45.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2019 at 1:11pm
"Picked up a battery load tester"....beware of parts store $40 testers.....My batter store says they don't load a batter hard enough to prove anything....as was the case on my WD 6V battery. Mine said it was good but it wouldn't crank it over. New battery whips it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim.ME Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2019 at 2:03pm
OK you had your alternator checked again and it is OK. Start in one spot and follow a path.

1. You said the wire to the alternator is connected to the same terminal on the starter solenoid relay as the positive battery cable is connected to - correct? Confirm you have battery voltage at the alternator output/battery terminal. If not find out why. If that circuit isn't complete your battery voltage will not come up.

2. If that voltage checks out ok, disconnect the two other wires and jumper terminal 2 direct to the output/battery post on the alternator. Make a jumper for terminal 1 with a female terminal to fit the alternator terminal and put a clip on the free end.

3. Start the tractor (be sure its in neutral) and check battery voltage.

4. With the tractor running clip the wire from the number 1 terminal to the output/battery terminal on the alternator. Check the voltage at the battery, it might take a couple minutes but it should start to come up. Remove the wire from the output/battery terminal of the alternator before you shut the engine off.

If the voltage comes up this way the problem is likely in your circuit to the #1 terminal. That circuit should have an incandescent bulb or a diode in it, not a resistor as such. Or add an oil pressure switch and feed the # 1 terminal through it - no bulb or diode required that way.
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truckerfarmer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truckerfarmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2019 at 9:15pm
Good news!!!
Got it working this afternoon. Switched out the led light with a non led 2" clearance light. Light goes out at about 1/2 throttle. Really hated giving up the led, because it fit so nicely in the hole in the dash. For now light is taped to steering column, til I find a light that will fit.
Thanks for all the suggestions.
Looking at the past to see the future.
'53 WD, '53 WD45, WD snap coupler field cultivator, #53 plow,'53 HD5B dozer

Duct tape.... Can't fix stupidity. But will muffle the sound of it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 2019 at 6:18am
nice to hear !
One option you can try is to put a 10 ohm resistor in PARALLEL with the LED. I've been meaning to do that  but 'misplaced' the neat LEDs I had that fit into the dash.
Maybe I SHOULD clean up the garage ???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim.ME Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 2019 at 6:58am
You should be able to get small diameter, non LED warning lamp holders at NAPA and other parts stores.
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truckerfarmer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truckerfarmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 2019 at 8:30pm
Hmmmm, parallel? I hadn't thought of that Jay. I may have to give that a try. It would still have the load of the resistor and possibly still use the led. Been 30 years since I got out of school, (I have an associates degree in electronics) but never went into that field, so, I have forgotten most of it. I used to have Ohms law memorized, but not anymore.
Looking at the past to see the future.
'53 WD, '53 WD45, WD snap coupler field cultivator, #53 plow,'53 HD5B dozer

Duct tape.... Can't fix stupidity. But will muffle the sound of it!
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