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Charging system conundrum

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truckerfarmer View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10 Dec 2019 at 6:58am
OK fellas, what am I missing. Can't seem to get the charging system on my TL12 loader to charge. It uses a WD 45 engine, so same as the tractor, basic wiring system. No lights right now.
Swapped alternator, (GM 3 wire SI alternator). Had it tested before installation. All new wires and idiot light. Heavy charging wire hooked to battery side of solenoid. Terminal 1 runs through a 5 ohm resistor and led idiot light in dash, then to switch. Terminal 2 runs to battery side of solenoid. Switched to smaller pulley on alternator.
Like I said, basic system. What am I missing?
Looking at the past to see the future.
'53 WD, '53 WD45, WD snap coupler field cultivator, #53 plow,'53 HD5B dozer

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Jim.ME View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim.ME Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2019 at 7:07am
What are you basing saying it doesn't charge on? Do you have a voltmeter or ammeter? Does the idiot light stay lit or go out? Have you checked voltage across the battery posts with a voltmeter?

One thought I have is the way you describe wiring it you have bypassed the ammeter and it won't show if it is charging.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhankins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2019 at 8:07am
Try hooking just a 12 volt bulb instead of the led.
 It might not be enough to excite the regulator.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2019 at 9:20am
I use a 10 ohm 10 watt resister ........ no idiot light. If the alternator tests GOOD, then your not getting the excitation voltage to kick in right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2019 at 9:20am
Trump Is Not A Lib or Conserv, He's a "Pragmatist." (someone who is practical and focused on reaching a goal. Has a straightforward, matter-of-fact approach and doesn't let emotion distract him or her
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truckerfarmer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truckerfarmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2019 at 10:42pm
Have that exact diagram downloaded Steve. I went with a 5 ohm resistor to get higher amperage to make sure there was enough load to trigger the alternator. Using Ohm's law, V/R=I, 12/5=2.4 amp versus 12/10=1.2 amp. No ammeter or voltmeter wired into the system as of right now. Using a multimeter only get around 11.5 volts at battery. Idiot light stays on even holding it at full throttle.
Plan to eventually replace the original ammeter in the dash, but need to find a 10 pin aviation connector to replace the factory one that won't come apart so I can take the dash off. So for now just trying get it to run so I can move snow. Don't have a shop to get it inside, so that will have to wait till spring. Plan to rewire the whole machine come next summer.
Looking at the past to see the future.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim.ME Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2019 at 6:01am
Use a jumper wire from the battery terminal on the alternator to the #1 terminal and see if it charges. From your description I understand the resistor, idiot lamp, and all the wire between the switch and alternator are all new, is that correct?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2019 at 6:37am
The idiot light staying on says the alternator is not supplying more volts than the battery.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote truckerfarmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2019 at 6:39am
Yes all wires are new.
One question though. If I jump from terminal 1 to the battery stud, there would be no load to trigger the alternator?
Looking at the past to see the future.
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Duct tape.... Can't fix stupidity. But will muffle the sound of it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrianC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2019 at 6:59am
You said the idiot light stays on, so i conclude you have an idiot light, led and resistor in series to terminal #1?  That's a lot of stuff. As a test use the jumper per Jim.
After that, use just the bulb. Those bulbs are about 45 ohms I think. The bulb holder must have two wires, nothing grounded here.

Next I would jumper in a test ground wire from battery negative post to alternator body.
The assumption is you have good ground. You swapped alternator, changed pulley size. So you have put effort into this. Should work, so maybe a fundamental requirement is lacking-a good ground.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2019 at 7:22am

here's what inside....
oops.. 3 wire below...

If the diode trio doesn't supply higher voltage than battery, light stays on.


Edited by jaybmiller - 11 Dec 2019 at 8:05am
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnaS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2019 at 7:26am
My question is the alternator itsself you said you swapped it and have a 3 plug Delco style, was that was was in it before?, my understanding was always you had to stay with it older 2 plug style?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stan IL&TN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2019 at 7:55am
You can wait until warmer weather to fix the problem, just charge the battery up before use. You should be able to run it for a couple of hours before it starts missing and that will let you know it is time for a recharge.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bradley6874 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2019 at 8:16am
I am with Donna on this you said three wire Delco alternator. .what’s yours???

Edited by bradley6874 - 11 Dec 2019 at 8:18am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim.ME Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2019 at 8:35am
How about posting a photo of the back of your alternator, terminal end, so we can all be sure which alternator we are talking about.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2019 at 10:28am
Folks,
Ok I attempted to follow along a little. I am terrible at electrical stuff. I think we could/ should have a place to go to set up a custom electrical system for some of these orange units? I have done 5 WD series. I ended up doing 4 the same way and the last has a different smaller Alternator which did not need the exciter wire. I use the voltmeter rather than a ammeter, which is always debated. But it works for me. I have also gone to mariner grade key switches and toggles for the lights. Seems better that the NAPA stuff, sorry NAPA!
I am still learning and lots of folks on here have helped me just like this!
I do like how robust the updated 12 volt systems work. I had one of the WD's set all winter and it fired up immediately in the spring!
Regards,
 Chris 


Edited by Sugarmaker - 11 Dec 2019 at 10:33am
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Ford Jubilee, IH TD6 Many IH Cub Cadets
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truckerfarmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2019 at 10:33pm

Sorry about pic size. All I have is an android phone and android tablet, and haven't found a way to resize. If to big, what works for me is to open it in a new tab or window.
Heavy white wire, (which has been replaced since picture was taken) goes to battery side of starter solenoid. Red wire goes to battery side of starter solenoid. Green/yellow wire goes to idiot light.
Checked, and have ground from case to engine block.

Started with just the light in the circuit. Light stayed on, so added the resistor to increase load due to fact it is a LED, so small load.
Was originally a generator (1952ish) but, was changed to an alternator by a previous owner.
Thought about just charging battery every time, but would like to be able to add lights, because it is dark before I get home from work to move snow.


Edited by truckerfarmer - 11 Dec 2019 at 10:35pm
Looking at the past to see the future.
'53 WD, '53 WD45, WD snap coupler field cultivator, #53 plow,'53 HD5B dozer

Duct tape.... Can't fix stupidity. But will muffle the sound of it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2019 at 5:06am
resized


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim.ME Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2019 at 6:16am
Try the temporary connections in this photo and see if it charges. You can just unplug the red/green wire connector and use spade terminals (to replace the connector) to make up the jumpers, you can put test clips on the other end of the wires so you don't have to hold them but can remove them easily. You can get battery voltage from the Battery/output terminal of the alternator to feed terminal. Another thought regarding the LED, most are polarity sensitive, I would remove the LED and try it with a regular incandescent bulb, no diode.



Edited by Jim.ME - 12 Dec 2019 at 6:20am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truckerfarmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2019 at 6:48am
Will give that a try.
Looking at the past to see the future.
'53 WD, '53 WD45, WD snap coupler field cultivator, #53 plow,'53 HD5B dozer

Duct tape.... Can't fix stupidity. But will muffle the sound of it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim.ME Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2019 at 6:53am
If you try an incandescent bulb remember the socket needs to be isolated from ground and it needs ground and power wires for the bulb so it ties into the wire to the alternator in series.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ted in NE-OH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2019 at 9:50am
It may be charging but just not through the ampmeter. Check your wiring to amp meter
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2019 at 9:52am
Originally posted by Ted in NE-OH Ted in NE-OH wrote:

It may be charging but just not through the ampmeter. Check your wiring to amp meter
He states he only has 11.5 volts at the battery, that's not charging.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2019 at 10:23am
If I were standing there, I'd disconnect that white wire from the big post, tape it, and run a new wire from that stud, direct to the battery +post... then start it, and put a voltmeter on the battery and see if it climbs up.  If the existing (white) wire is going through the ammeter into the original wiring, there's probably a mouse-chewed who-knows going on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim.ME Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2019 at 1:51pm
He said in an earlier post the white wire had been replaced since the photo was taken. If I understood it in an earlier post the new wire already goes to the stud of the starter switch same as the battery cable does, bypassing the ammeter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC(WI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2019 at 2:42pm
Should have 13.6 - 14.3 volts right on the main stud of the alternator... some of them had a spot in the back cover that you could stick a small screwdriver or nail in to ground the regulator to get full charge to see if the alt. was working.
 Don't see the the hole on this alt. cover.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truckerfarmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2019 at 11:02pm
Didn't get a chance to look at it tonight. Wife drug me out Christmas shopping.
Coworker mentioned the spot on the regulator, but I understood him as to pushing a button in there. Didn't understand grounding the regulator. May try that. Could someone explain that a little more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC(WI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2019 at 3:24am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC(WI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2019 at 3:28am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim.ME Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2019 at 5:26am
I think the white wire is blocking being able to see the test tab in your photo. When I blow the photo up I think the edge of the hole is visible. It should be right in the area The arrow points to. If you look in the hole you should see the tab. That's where it will be if its there. Try the jumper wires first to rule out the lack of excitation power.

Just to confirm. The battery is hooked up negative ground correct?



Edited by Jim.ME - 13 Dec 2019 at 6:18am
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