Unofficial Allis Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Allis Chalmers > Construction and other equipment
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Can someone date my tractor:

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
Codger View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Illinois
Points: 167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Can someone date my tractor:
    Posted: 30 Nov 2021 at 9:24pm
I purchased my Fiat-Allis 11B tractor with serial number 25L 1910 8 and would like to know when it was actually manufactured if able. I've been told 1975 but there have been inconsistencies with that serial number as to year of build.

Thanks in advance.


Edited by Codger - 30 Nov 2021 at 9:25pm
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
DiyDave View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Gambrills, MD
Points: 41796
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 4:38am
I'm not that into tractors that I' date it...Wink  But, Norm's book states that the last 11B of 1974 was #18798, so your guess of 1975 is probably right.
Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need!
Back to Top
Codger View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Illinois
Points: 167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 6:00am
Thanks Dave. 1974 was the other year it was assumed to be but by that book you cite, it has to be into the 1975 year if serial numbers are sequential to build.

At the present we are carrying on an estranged relationship, but hope to soon become very close. She is kind of cold and uncompromising, but I like it that way.

Thanks again,
Back to Top
Coke-in-MN View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Afton MN
Points: 39965
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 10:01am
Back in the 80's I was looking at a Fiat Allis track loader with Srl # X4 - Salesman was all positive I should buy it .
 Talked to one of the parts guys - said it was a total nightmare to get parts for as was a prototype experimental machine . Said finding even filters for it required calling main distributor for parts as well as any other parts needed as separate pages in parts book for each X machine .
 Seen the machine again about 2 months later - contractor I bought a HD5B from had bought it . Was setting waiting for some parts from Italy to get it fixed . 
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
Back to Top
Codger View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Illinois
Points: 167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 12:09pm
i have heard they can be tough to get parts for but this one doesn't really need anything at the present. It may not in my tenure as it will only get limited and easy use.



I have access to two parts chassis if needed in the future as they are not going anyplace, but neither is operational. 


Edited by Codger - 18 Dec 2021 at 5:55am
Back to Top
HD6 Merv View Drop Down
Silver Level Access
Silver Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Location: New Zealand
Points: 424
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HD6 Merv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2021 at 1:25am
18798 was last Allis Chalmers HD11-B made.
But they continued as Fiat Allis 11-B  until 1977.
Highest serial ive seen is 19612
tits tyres and tracks

they all cost you money
Back to Top
Codger View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Illinois
Points: 167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2021 at 8:09am
I remember well into the 1983 year as drove by the plant twice daily the 11B, 16B, and 21B series as they were all staged in a single area. Larger tractors were in another area and not as easy to see from the perimeter. I also remember the units built for Iran setting off to themselves for years with the embargo going at the time. They became rust buckets over the years as time went on.
Back to Top
Lazyts View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Location: Manitoba
Points: 621
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Lazyts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2021 at 9:03pm
For some reason the serial number record in Swinford's book for 11-B was incomplete.  Seems that Roosa Master pump was fitted at S/n 18799, January 1975.  Mark 2 engine was fitted at 19335, i'm guessing around a year later.  11-B discontinued early 1977, so likely ended around 19600 range.  Highest I've seen here is 19590- last ones had a muffler under the hood.  Fiat take-over was January 1974.  

Edited by Lazyts - 02 Dec 2021 at 9:10pm
Back to Top
Codger View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Illinois
Points: 167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2021 at 5:09pm
Got me wondering if the ones I seen were unsold examples or something. I well remember them along with the European designed tractors which were more mainstream these days. They were more of a brownish gray, or orange color than the construction yellow of the older models. Also remember the black lettering and it changing to white although didn't know why till I asked a friends dad that worked there.

I have a lunch date with a couple of friends and families that worked the Springfield, IL plant in the 1970's and 80's and one was there till it closed. He built final drives till the parts ran out and was laid off. The other retired at plant closing. I ran with both party's boys when much younger, and we've kept in touch through the years.  
Back to Top
HD6 Merv View Drop Down
Silver Level Access
Silver Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Location: New Zealand
Points: 424
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HD6 Merv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2021 at 6:40pm
Be interesting to know if your friends who worked at the springfield plant had any records of the last 11-B and 16-B crawlers made ?
Cheers Merv
tits tyres and tracks

they all cost you money
Back to Top
Codger View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Illinois
Points: 167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2021 at 11:19pm
Originally posted by HD6 Merv HD6 Merv wrote:

Be interesting to know if your friends who worked at the springfield plant had any records of the last 11-B and 16-B crawlers made ?
Cheers Merv


I would doubt there would be any records as both were production type employees and not administrative in nature. When we get together I'll ask some questions about the tractors and builds. There may be some information there, and I'll try to find out.

I thought I read someplace online the 11B series was produced up into the early 1980's; but, I've slept since then so forgotten where I read it.


Back to Top
Codger View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Illinois
Points: 167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2021 at 11:26pm
Originally posted by Lazyts Lazyts wrote:

For some reason the serial number record in Swinford's book for 11-B was incomplete.  Seems that Roosa Master pump was fitted at S/n 18799, January 1975.  Mark 2 engine was fitted at 19335, i'm guessing around a year later.  11-B discontinued early 1977, so likely ended around 19600 range.  Highest I've seen here is 19590- last ones had a muffler under the hood.  Fiat take-over was January 1974.  


Mine has the Roosa-Master "DC" injection pump. I don't really know much about Allis engines and assume it's the Mark 2 series you mention. Originally, and as built did not have a muffler; only a vertical straight pipe for exhaust.

Only thing I really know is it sure starts and runs well.




Edited by Codger - 05 Dec 2021 at 6:40am
Back to Top
JohnColo View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 03 Apr 2020
Location: Niwot, CO
Points: 1027
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnColo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2021 at 8:42pm
What do you suppose happened to the machines sold to Iran and never shipped?
Back to Top
Lazyts View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Location: Manitoba
Points: 621
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lazyts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2021 at 8:46pm
Mark 2 engines are labelled 11000MKll on the serial number plate (beside starter on LH side).  The later MK2 and 685 blocks also have a thicker casting behind the oil filters on the RH side, with a plug on the rear for installation of a threaded block heater.  
16B continued to be produced after the 11B was discontinued.  I've heard from two different sources that the last 16Bs were "blown out" with no warranty around 1981-82, when the Springfield plant was closing.


Edited by Lazyts - 06 Dec 2021 at 8:51pm
Back to Top
Codger View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Illinois
Points: 167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2021 at 11:10pm
Thanks. Those dates sound about right. The economy was very bad in that time frame and I took a job hauling The State Journal-Register newspapers to local, rural, and surrounding towns for distribution. I did this most of 1981, and a good portion of 1982 traveling on the bordering streets of S. 11th street, Stevenson Drive, and S. Sixth street daily.  It was during this time I passed the plant on the way to, and from work. In the mid 1970's there was equipment all over the plant grounds; by the early 1980's, not so much and old inventory was sitting. That is why I remember these tractors setting idle for so long.

It was still that way at the end of 1984 when I left the area to go into the military. Once I discharged four years later, the plant was gone altogether.

I don't know what happened to the Iranian dozers. The plastic preservative wrap long rotted off of them and they sat exposed for a long time. I do think they were still there when I left the area so the ultimate disposition, I don't know, but maybe I can find out.
Back to Top
Lazyts View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Location: Manitoba
Points: 621
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lazyts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2021 at 10:08am
That's very interesting- thanks for sharing that story!  I'd never heard about the equipment sitting because of the embargo.  It seems that alot of the Allis equipment in the late '70s was shipped abroad, as Fiat and their subsidiaries seemed to be involved in many major construction projects around the globe.  The youtube video "Fiat Allis al lavoro" shows Fiat Allis equipment building a seaport at Bandar Abbas, Iran- date would be 1976 or 1977 I think.  Clearly shows 21C tractor so must be after 1975 anyway.  I've watched that video many times- really good footage of the Springfield plant, 41Bs and 460C scraper.
Back to Top
Codger View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Illinois
Points: 167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2021 at 3:37pm
I watched that video and can only positively identify the Springfield, IL plant exterior from a very small segment starting at 37 seconds to about 41 seconds into the presentation. Many of the landmarks are present although the segment is far from what it was in the late 1970's and early 1980's. Many of the assembly and machining segments are definitely Springfield but you wouldn't know if not having been there. The video sure was interesting, but jumps around a lot. And yes, F-A was all over the globe in those days as the North American markets were collapsing.

I found some interesting information on the Springfield plant but cannot relocate it. I'll keep looking and post up some links.

Went and visited my 11B this afternoon as the poor girl has been evicted from her indoor storage. She was wrapped in a blue tarp and we had some very strong winds earlier in the week which destroyed that. I did some measuring for a replacement and brought both 4D batteries home to get them on a maintainer so they don't set dormant any longer.


Edited by Codger - 09 Dec 2021 at 3:38pm
Back to Top
Codger View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Illinois
Points: 167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2021 at 7:20am
I ordered up a couple of much heavier duty plastic tarps yesterday evening and will pick them up today to get the machine recovered. Only the operator station is open to weather right now. The former owner used a 20'X30' tarp and it covered most of the tractor very well so I ordered the same. Also ordered a 25'X40' but won't see it till later. I do have several "corner guards" such as used in semi trailer work to protect from sharp edges. I think the ROPS edges are actually what done the original tarp in. I also have a couple dozen new rubber straps for binding the covering tarp.

I'll have the machine uncovered and will shoot a few photos later in the day. It will once again be kept inside at my shop so don't want to spend a fortune on a temporary covering. I have ordered a couple of steer tires for my semi tractor and I'll bring the dozer home shortly after they are installed.
Back to Top
Codger View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Illinois
Points: 167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2021 at 7:16am
Had lunch with the guys on Saturday. Not really a lot of information available citing aforementioned production employees. However, one buddy formerly assembled components and he tells me very near the end they were robbing parts from unsold, and unfinished tractors to complete the builds of ordered units. The reason being parts supplies were exhausted. There were also instances at the end where incomplete tractors were sent/shipped to purchasers for final, and minor assembly which was assumed to be servicing dealers, or broken into parts supplies?

No word on the Iranian dozers which were mostly "FD series" models. They were still there when the plant closed and all production employees laid off.

One of the guys told me either he, or one other gent would have built up the final drives in my tractor. I don't really know if there would be a way to ascertain this kind of depth but it was interesting for sure. Cheap entertainment as they say. Regardless there weren't too many that built finals and in the timeframe my dozer was built, he was in that work center.

On a sad note I also learned one of the boys I ran with passed with cancer a few years back and I had no idea.

All in all a nice time and good to see folks again.


Edited by Codger - 13 Dec 2021 at 7:17am
Back to Top
Codger View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Illinois
Points: 167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2021 at 8:31am
Fully load tested the group 4D batteries by placing a load onto them till they dropped to 22VDC, (series wired) and then recharged to 1.255 specific gravity, (averaged) between all cells. One battery was manufactured in May, 2017, and the other June, 2021 and the former tests to about 83% capacity of the latter using a 25A load and measuring RC. I am going to place another 25A load upon them again and reapply another equalizing charge to final evaluate the performance. Ultimately, I'll most likely install new batteries when the tractor goes into service and use the existing in another tractor using the same size.

Very high winds of late have once again destroyed my tarping scenario so this time have purchased a polypropylene tarp which is much stronger (and $$$) than the polyethylene types used originally.

It was a genuine SOB tarping the last time in light winds so taking a helper today and going to "hog tie" the tractor good.


Edited by Codger - 17 Dec 2021 at 8:53am
Back to Top
DSeries4 View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Points: 6498
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DSeries4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2021 at 11:22am
I have never found a tarp of any type that can stand up to the wind.  Tarps are not impervious to water either.  Eventually water will seep through.  For best results, find a place to park it inside.
'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14 '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '85 6080
Back to Top
Eric B View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Location: British Columbi
Points: 767
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eric B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2021 at 1:12pm
My serial# book has your machine as a 1975. They are listed up to 1977 but only with the starting number but not the last.
Currently- WD,WC,3WF's,2 D14's B. Previously- I 600,TL745,200,FL9,FR12,H3,816 LBH. Earth has no sorrow that Heaven cannot heal!
Back to Top
Codger View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Illinois
Points: 167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2021 at 1:55pm
Thanks guys. I'll attempt to post up a few photos I took about an hour ago:


Back to Top
Codger View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Illinois
Points: 167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2021 at 1:56pm
Back to Top
Codger View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Illinois
Points: 167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2021 at 1:57pm
Back to Top
Codger View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Illinois
Points: 167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2021 at 1:58pm
Back to Top
Codger View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Illinois
Points: 167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2021 at 2:02pm
27F outside and the tractor hasn't been started in about a month. It cranked about 30 seconds and then started firing and about four to five seconds after letting the starter button loose, it was running smoothly on all six cylinders.

Here she is all packaged and awaiting pickup from the postal service, (LOL):


Back to Top
Codger View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Illinois
Points: 167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2021 at 3:24pm
Oh man, me neither on tarps holding up to the wind. This is just a temporary measure as the tractor hasn't seen any outdoor storage in over 20 years I know of. This latest tarp is polypropylene and 11mil thick. From appearance and feel it is very heavy. I ran cardboard edge protectors around the perimeter of the ROPS and several layers Gorilla taped any sharp edges the tarp will bear against. The tarp is bungee strapped to the tracks or underpinnings. Best part is, (and the reason I purchased this one) is Menard's warrants the tarp for five years against tearing. They are quite liberal in their coverage and easy to work with so this should work well until I get the tractor inside my shop building for it's inside storage.

This is the one I used and am initially quite pleased with it:

Back to Top
Codger View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Illinois
Points: 167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2021 at 7:33pm
Back to Top
HD6 Merv View Drop Down
Silver Level Access
Silver Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Location: New Zealand
Points: 424
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HD6 Merv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2021 at 11:06pm
very nice looking and sounding  11-B. Cheers for sharing CodgerClap
tits tyres and tracks

they all cost you money
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.141 seconds.


Help Support the
Unofficial Allis Forum