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Allis/Farmall/Jd/ ETC Traction Control ? |
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1963D17
Bronze Level Joined: 05 Jun 2021 Location: Alvord, Iowa Points: 89 |
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IH fast hitch went to hydraulic control as an option on 460/560's. It was called teledepth. A rod on the left side hooked to the fast hitch lift arm. Went forward to a bellcrank and up to the fast hitch valve. In the teledepth FH valve was a set of 3 small bevel gears that are controlled by the valve control handle on the dash. The center gear of the three moved a spool in the valve It worked but was a bit mickey mouse. The bevel gears would occasionally strip off the teeth or shear the pin that held them in the cross shaft. Which led to the miserable job of re-timing them. Yes they are timed. And then there is all the floppy linkage/yoke beam on the back that I am sure got loose shortly after new. It's impossible to back a wagon with a 560 as the fast hitch beam is the drawbar and it flops from one side to the other. It wasnt until the 706/806 came out that fast hitch finally was at it's best. But by then it was obsolete in the AG world. I own 460's thru 806's. Love the 706/806 fast hitch. I also own WD's thru D17. The snap-tach was a far simpler set up.
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Randy Magnum
Bronze Level Joined: 22 Nov 2023 Location: Northeast Ohio Points: 9 |
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“Snap tach” is a malapropism I’ve seen used extensively on the redpower site.
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jvin248
Silver Level Joined: 17 Jan 2022 Location: Detroit Points: 312 |
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. Ferguson three point was a true improvement to traction and tractor safety ( the reason Ferguson pursued the design, the tractor couldn't flip over). +1 Ford-II was the one to break the royalty deal and Ferguson set up a Detroit factory to make Ferguson tractors in the US. Eventually Ferguson merged with Massey Harris. The AC system is really the Ferguson system with the draft link on the bottom. An upside down Ferguson system that went unnoticed by patent attorneys. That's why it worked. IH and JD tried other systems. I still remember riding on our Farmall 806 pulling five bottoms when I must have been three years old and we struck a root and that tractor reared into the air. The world was moving the Goliath of a tractor! It had the underslung fast hitch. Obviously imperfect in operation. When Ferguson patents ran out it became the default for all modern tractors. . .
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Macon Rounds
Orange Level Joined: 18 Feb 2010 Location: Pittsburgh Pa Points: 2143 |
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Comparing Ford/Ferguson top link sensing to Allis belly sensing it is upside down but apples and oranges.
Yes they both use hydraulics but were do you draw the line for patient infringements. Allis uses direct pressure and Ford/Ferguson use indirect presure. Not understanding patent rights myself. I would thing anything with 4 wheels an engine and transmission could be an infringement. I am glad that the three point hitch was universally adopted cause the snap coupler design can be extremely frustrating if you are hooking up implements by yourself. Like i mentioned I really don't understand patent rights. No offense meant. |
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The Allis "D" Series Tractors, Gravely Walk behind Tractors, Cowboy Action Shooting !!!!!!! And Checkmate
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Randy Magnum
Bronze Level Joined: 22 Nov 2023 Location: Northeast Ohio Points: 9 |
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The only time i ever had trouble hooking up snap coupler implements is if i parked them on uneven ground. If they’re flat and level, I don’t even need to leave the seat on a wd45.
I’ve been pretty disgruntled with 3 pt hitch equipment before though. Especially if the arms don’t extend or there isn’t winging adjustment on both arms, or if there’s no rear control for the 3pt. (All these points are excellent traits of the 100 series tractors) |
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exSW
Orange Level Joined: 21 Jul 2017 Location: Pennsylvania Points: 914 |
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I like SC but mines a b!tch. That hook will NOT let go. Adjust the chain, back up, play with the implement you (nearly) always end up sticking a prybar in there to get it started. Hookup is rarely a problem.
Most of the people who complain about Fast Hitch are like those who complain about Gleaners. They never sat down and read the manual to learn the settings and adjustments. Edited by exSW - 24 Nov 2023 at 6:26pm |
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Learning AC...slowly
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20488 |
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Shorten the chain 2 links. WD45, correct ??
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exSW
Orange Level Joined: 21 Jul 2017 Location: Pennsylvania Points: 914 |
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'52 WD with the upgrade. I've played with the chain. The problem is the hook has very little if any wear. Not a bad problem to have. Hooking up is no problem. Dropping the implement is a different story.
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Learning AC...slowly
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SteveM C/IL
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8239 |
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You surely know to push a little in reverse then depress lever to get unhooked? Hand clutch reverse,left foot depress lever, release hand clutch and slip into fwd gear (3rd usually) and drive away. For those who insist on foot clutch shifting I don't know how your left foot can do 2 things at once..... It works good here.
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exSW
Orange Level Joined: 21 Jul 2017 Location: Pennsylvania Points: 914 |
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Yes. Doesn't help. I think it's a issue of little to no wear and rust.
Edited by exSW - 25 Nov 2023 at 3:30pm |
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Learning AC...slowly
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20488 |
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I know, if your implement depth (a plow) is set quite deep, the tongue eye is too tall and puts the snap coupler bell on a bind. Same way if the tongue is too low. Ideally, the eye should be at the correct height for the easiest unhooking as you back into the implement and pull down on the handle.
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IBWD MIke
Orange Level Joined: 08 Apr 2012 Location: Newton Ia. Points: 3727 |
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Like the Doctor says, tongue height is key. I shoot for 14", thought 13 might be better for tractors with smaller tires. Both my 45's have 16.9X28's.
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IBWD MIke
Orange Level Joined: 08 Apr 2012 Location: Newton Ia. Points: 3727 |
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I did a little research on this matter. These are the weights of different model tractors from the era discussed in this thread. Numbers from tractor data, heaviest one listed. Allis) WD 45 4285 Lbs. D-17 4670 Lbs. IH) M 4858 Lbs, Super M 5603 Lbs, Super MD 5770 Lbs. 350 5475 Lbs. 400 6300 Lbs. 450 6519 Lbs. 460 6055 Lbs. Case) 400 6000 Lbs. Oliver) 88 5000 Lbs. Super 88 5400 Lbs. JD) 60 5800 Lbs. 70 7079 Lbs. The point of this post is that our AC's are lighter in general than other machines of that time-frame and size. A really good form of traction control was more necessary. I probably pay closer attention to Orange and Red tractors at the plow-days I go to than other colors and what I see is that neither of those have much trouble with traction. Lots of the Red ones are using pull-type plows where traction-control is null. Really don't see many fast-hitch plows for some reason? Something else, I've heard some knocks on the fast-hitch, not just here even on Red Power that ground clearance could be an issue. The wishbone does decrease clearance compared to a comparable model with three point. Well curiosity hit me. Measured the clearance for the D-17 and the 450, They are just a few feet apart right now. D-17 was 11", 450 was 14". Full disclosure, this is not a fair comparison. 17 has tiny, 13.6x28, rubber on it and the 450 has big, brand new 16.9x38's on it. I think they are about 5" taller than the 15.5's were. I will do some more measuring today for comparisons sake. Will get data from the other D-17 with 16.9's, at least one 45, also with 16.9's, maybe a WD with 14.9's, a 756 with fast-hitch, and an 856 with three point. The last one will be gaining ground clearance next year when the new rubber goes on.
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exSW
Orange Level Joined: 21 Jul 2017 Location: Pennsylvania Points: 914 |
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My 560 has 16.9x38's ground clearance has never been an issue. Stalks will pluck out cheap low tension chinese hairpins so I don't use those.
As to why people don't use FH plows. Except for the coulters nearly all the adjustment is in the FH itself. Once you READ THE MANUAL it's pretty straight foward. I am by no means a plowman but I know what it's supposed to look like when you're done and both my 560 and 706(former) do a great job running a consistent 7+ inches deep. The 560 especially. Hock it in as deep as it will go,set the traction control and go. Pull the T/A occasionally. Edited by exSW - 26 Nov 2023 at 8:30am |
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Learning AC...slowly
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20488 |
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The A-C snap-coupler bell doesn't have quite as wide of a swath as that wishbone frame on a fast hitch. Not to say it doesn't get down in the mud sometimes, but I don't think as much of a hinderance as the IH system.
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exSW
Orange Level Joined: 21 Jul 2017 Location: Pennsylvania Points: 914 |
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I've raked hay with both. FH all you do is lift the drawbar a couple feet and you cleared the build up. Gotta use a short pin with the WD.
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Learning AC...slowly
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IBWD MIke
Orange Level Joined: 08 Apr 2012 Location: Newton Ia. Points: 3727 |
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Everything I measured yesterday was between 13" to 15". This kind of surprised me. Of course if these were taken on concrete the measurements would vary a bit. Really thought the 856 would have more clearance than the others, it has a little more but not much. It will gain a couple inches next year when the new rubber goes on however! The fast hitch does look like it could be a pain while raking/baling hay.
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exSW
Orange Level Joined: 21 Jul 2017 Location: Pennsylvania Points: 914 |
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It really isn't. I use a #16 IH rake and my buddy uses a #35 behind his 560. I have 16.9's he has 18.4's. Just don't lock the FH and you can raise and lower to the perfect rake height.
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Learning AC...slowly
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